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Topic: Analyze My SCORE

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  1. #1

    Analyze My SCORE

    Hi, OK below is a live recording of only the strings playing a specific passage from a score.

    http://www.miserymadebeautiful.com/real.mp3

    I strongly believe that the string players are performing out of tune with each other. BUT, if there is something wrong with their parts I would like to know and correct it. Please look at the jpeg image of my score and follow the strings with the recording above and let me know what you think. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    http://www.miserymadebeautiful.com/sample1page1.jpg

    Thank you...

    Sincerely,
    Michael
    "...Wiktor's a Jekyll-Hyde personality..." - Lycos Music
    http://www.miserymadebeautiful.com

  2. #2

    Re: Analyze My SCORE

    I think is very well written, i personally hate that "passport encore" look of overture, the spacing is very awful. But, everything else is quite right, the only thing is that the technique indications e.g:"arco" goes above the staff, not below.

    Bye.

  3. #3

    Re: Analyze My SCORE

    Hi Michael:

    First, the Bassoon doesn't use the ALTO clef. It normally uses the BASS or TENOR clefs.

    Secondly, what is meant by the fp under the first notes of the flute and bassoon parts? If there was following notation, the reader would apply the "p" until a change was made. With one note, I would wonder what that meant.

    Third, where, dynamically are you starting from with your crescendos in the first measure of the trumpet and violin parts? "p," "mf," or something else?

    fourth, I wonder if you need to analyze the enharmonic spellings that you are giving to some notes in the string parts. Don't forget, a sharp is bent a little upwards by a string player as is a flat bent a little down. Sometimes this could affect the desired pitch on playback as the strings are not well-tempered instruments. This could make the section sound out of tune with other strings.

    Just a few things to look at.....

    Sounds pretty good, though, IMO. I might even say it sounds better than it looks. LOL

    Jack
    Jack Cannon--MacBook Pro (2015, 13") GPO4/5, JABB3, Auth. STEINWAY, YAMAHA CFX, Gofriller CELLO, Stradivari VIOLIN, COMB2, WORLD, HARPS, PIPE ORGANS, FINALE 2014.5, Mac Pro 2.66 GHz CPU, 8 GB RAM, DP 9.5, MOTU Traveler, MOTU Micro Express, MacBook Pro (2012, 13") 2.2 Ghz CPU, 8 GB RAM.

  4. #4

    Re: Analyze My SCORE

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhap2
    Hi Michael:

    First, the Bassoon doesn't use the ALTO clef. It normally uses the BASS or TENOR clefs.

    Secondly, what is meant by the fp under the first notes of the flute and bassoon parts? If there was following notation, the reader would apply the "p" until a change was made. With one note, I would wonder what that meant.

    Third, where, dynamically are you starting from with your crescendos in the first measure of the trumpet and violin parts? "p," "mf," or something else?

    fourth, I wonder if you need to analyze the enharmonic spellings that you are giving to some notes in the string parts. Don't forget, a sharp is bent a little upwards by a string player as is a flat bent a little down. Sometimes this could affect the desired pitch on playback as the strings are not well-tempered instruments. This could make the section sound out of tune with other strings.

    Just a few things to look at.....

    Sounds pretty good, though, IMO. I might even say it sounds better than it looks. LOL

    Jack
    Thank you very much both of you for taking the time to listen and look. Your points are very valuable.

    The one I'm most interested in are the strings. As far as the sharps are concerned in the string section, I have modulated and am using the correct chord spelling. To use other accidentals would confuse the theory. To spell it another way would defeat the purpose of following the chromatic flow. I like the conductors to see where the music modulates. It also helps me to fix problems if I need to go back by keeping everything spelled correctly.

    Are you saying that if I would have used (flats) it would have sounded better? That sounds a little weird to me. They are all playing the same accidentals. I don't see how that would inhibit a professional player to perform correctly. I'm surprised you do not hear them playing out of tune. Like a badly tuned guitar being played.

    Again thank you for taking the time.

    Michael
    "...Wiktor's a Jekyll-Hyde personality..." - Lycos Music
    http://www.miserymadebeautiful.com

  5. #5

    Re: Analyze My SCORE

    Michael:

    It's nice to display what the theory is doing throughout, but playing an orchestral part is not a theory lesson (it may be for the conductor who is seeing everything at once, but not for the individual part player). My concern when notating for instruments that are not well-tempered is twofold:

    1. Could there be an "intonation" problem because of the way I notated the line.

    2. What does the "individual" part look like for the player. Does it make sense to the player. One example: If you have written G-G#-G, it might make better sense to the player looking at his/her part if he/she saw G-Ab-G (a note going to its upper neighbor and back). To make the second note G#, he/she might think the line is going up.............but it doesn't.

    Intonation problems caused by *confusing* notation can be corrected in rehearsal, but they may also be avoided with more careful score preparation.

    This is all I have of offer, Michael. I'm just trying to make you aware that when you hear strings playing out of tune, what the possible cause could be.

    Jack
    Jack Cannon--MacBook Pro (2015, 13") GPO4/5, JABB3, Auth. STEINWAY, YAMAHA CFX, Gofriller CELLO, Stradivari VIOLIN, COMB2, WORLD, HARPS, PIPE ORGANS, FINALE 2014.5, Mac Pro 2.66 GHz CPU, 8 GB RAM, DP 9.5, MOTU Traveler, MOTU Micro Express, MacBook Pro (2012, 13") 2.2 Ghz CPU, 8 GB RAM.

  6. #6

    Re: Analyze My SCORE

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhap2
    Michael:

    It's nice to display what the theory is doing throughout, but playing an orchestral part is not a theory lesson (it may be for the conductor who is seeing everything at once, but not for the individual part player). My concern when notating for instruments that are not well-tempered is twofold:

    1. Could there be an "intonation" problem because of the way I notated the line.

    2. What does the "individual" part look like for the player. Does it make sense to the player. One example: If you have written G-G#-G, it might make better sense to the player looking at his/her part if he/she saw G-Ab-G (a note going to its upper neighbor and back). To make the second note G#, he/she might think the line is going up.............but it doesn't.

    Intonation problems caused by *confusing* notation can be corrected in rehearsal, but they may also be avoided with more careful score preparation.

    This is all I have of offer, Michael. I'm just trying to make you aware that when you hear strings playing out of tune, what the possible cause could be.

    Jack
    Thank you Jack. This really helps.
    Sincerely,
    Michael
    "...Wiktor's a Jekyll-Hyde personality..." - Lycos Music
    http://www.miserymadebeautiful.com

  7. #7

    Re: Analyze My SCORE

    I'm assuming you've double-checked the score and parts and that the correct notes are indeed being played, however accurately or inaccurately. As a rule, dissonant music or non-triadic, diatonic harmonies can be difficult to play in tune because the player's reference points aren't always there. I've always joked that all strings should have frets, for this very reason.

    The violins do indeed have some issues, particularly getting to the high F, I think it is, near the end of the passage. The violas start out a little weak, but they seem to get it together quickly as do the celli. This sounds like a first or second reading and more rehearsal would fix any problems because the players would be more familiar with the lines and intervals.

    As for notation practices, I always try to make the music look as playable as possible to the player. Rules of theory are immaterial to the person trying to read and perform your music. The more easily read the music is, the quicker it will sound good. If the players are struggling through double sharps and double flats and awkward accidentals, that doesn't help anybody, but it does frustrate the players, lengthen your rehearsal time/budget, and lead to weaker performances.

    My $0.02.
    Paul Baker
    Baker's Jazz And More
    Austin, Texas, USA
    www.bakersjazzandmore.com

  8. #8

    Re: Analyze My SCORE

    Quote Originally Posted by bmdaustin
    I'm assuming you've double-checked the score and parts and that the correct notes are indeed being played, however accurately or inaccurately. As a rule, dissonant music or non-triadic, diatonic harmonies can be difficult to play in tune because the player's reference points aren't always there. I've always joked that all strings should have frets, for this very reason.

    The violins do indeed have some issues, particularly getting to the high F, I think it is, near the end of the passage. The violas start out a little weak, but they seem to get it together quickly as do the celli. This sounds like a first or second reading and more rehearsal would fix any problems because the players would be more familiar with the lines and intervals.

    As for notation practices, I always try to make the music look as playable as possible to the player. Rules of theory are immaterial to the person trying to read and perform your music. The more easily read the music is, the quicker it will sound good. If the players are struggling through double sharps and double flats and awkward accidentals, that doesn't help anybody, but it does frustrate the players, lengthen your rehearsal time/budget, and lead to weaker performances.

    My $0.02.
    Thank you paul very much. I value your $0.02. What you say is true; both about the performance and the score. I am learing a great deal.

    Sincerely,
    Michael
    "...Wiktor's a Jekyll-Hyde personality..." - Lycos Music
    http://www.miserymadebeautiful.com

  9. #9

    Re: Analyze My SCORE

    Hi all. This looks like fun so I thought I'd throw my hat into the mix.

    Has anyone seen my hat?

    Ok, just kidding. Here is a piece I wrote using just Finale 2006 and its GPO. I hope you all like it. It's called My Home the USA

    http://www.mp3unsigned.com/Showband.asp?id=12707

    (Wish I had a real saxophone GPO sound!)

  10. #10

    Re: Analyze My SCORE

    Sorry for the last post - please ignore. I am not sure how it got on this message board. I wasn't here when I posted it!?

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