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Topic: Introduction/Sonar midi questions

  1. #1

    Introduction/Sonar midi questions

    Hi everyone. My name is Earl Green. This is my first post.

    I am first and foremost a vocalist. I have been singing opera for over 25 years and currently am working with the Orlando Opera. I'm also an organist and have been one for over 30 years. Soon I'll have a website up in case anyone wants to take a peek.

    I am in the process of putting together a project studio and have considered using GPO. I've been reading the posts over the last few weeks and decided to join. I really like the spirit of this forum. Very helpful and creative.

    Most of the arrangments will be pop/orchestral background tracks for my vocals. I'm working on a worship type project and want some real sounding orchestral instruments. Later I will want to add the Jazz package.

    I will not be able to purchase GPO for several months, probably around Christmas, so I have a few questions.

    1. If I create midi files in Sonar and use Cakewalk TTS and Edirol VSC to start with, when I get GPO will I have much to edit? Are there any tips you can give me to start including in my midi files now so the conversion will be fairly seamless?

    2. I will be using mainly mouse and notation to input, outside some keyboard parts on my M-Audio Keystation Pro 88.

    Thanks again for any help.
    Earl Green

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    New York, NY

    Re: Introduction/Sonar midi questions

    Yeah, you definitely will have to edit much cause of the technique of playing with GPO... Somewhere in this forum, they talk in detail about how to use the mod wheel to create expressive lines... The mod wheel is a very strong part of doing a lot of with GPO and also, using the sustain pedal you can create legato.. So, if you've used sustain pedal to create sustained notes, It won't translate if you also want to use legato on the same track.. I know you mention using the mouse for input, it just means that later you'll have to add mod wheel controller for expression and dynamics...

    Also, when using any synth program, the sounds are going to have their own characteristics, and you may be getting a certain phrasing that won't happen with another program... If you're going to do any involved work, it's best to start with GPO and finish it in GPO... You'll thank yourself later...

  3. #3

    Re: Introduction/Sonar midi questions

    The basic midi file as you create it in Sonar with another synth like VSC or TTS (that comes with Sonar) can be used as is when you get GPO. Markleford has written some MFX plugs that you can use to convert the midi signals from GM to GPO.

    If it can be used it does not mean that it will sound at it's best. It will probably sound much better than in TTS. If you are a skilled MIDI programmer / orchestrator you would probably already use lots of expression midi controllers. An irritating thing with GPO is that is use CC #1 instead of the expression, so you have to convert all your midi messages. It is pretty quick however and Sonar has the tricks built in under edit / convert midi to shapes and then re-assign the envelope. Also, one of the Markleford plugs that comes with GPO does it as quick.

    TTS or VSC does not have many articulations, so you will have to rework a bit of that. It is usually not much of an isue.

    I can also recommend the Gilreat Guide to midi orchestration. This is really good at showing you what the tricks are to make your mixes sound realistic.


  4. #4

    Re: Introduction/Sonar midi questions

    Thanks guys for the info. I knew it would be easier to just wait until I got GPO but I have a project due out before Christmas and I need to get a head start on it.

    I already have the Gilreath book and you're right, it's wonderful. I've been reading it through now for the second time.

    I'm also excited to get started on the "Principles of Orchestra" here at Garritan. This is a great tool.

    I will read up on your suggestions Sepheritoh concerning the "CC #1" situation and also the Markleford plugs.

    I'm interested in any other tips you guys have to offer!

    Thanks again so much.
    Earl Green

  5. #5

    Re: Introduction/Sonar midi questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Sepheritoh
    The basic midi file as you create it in Sonar with another synth like VSC or TTS (that comes with Sonar) can be used as is when you get GPO. Markleford has written some MFX plugs that you can use to convert the midi signals from GM to GPO.
    Yes, check out my site below for free MFX plugins. With them you can covert the controllers between the two conventions. It won't be 100% automatic, but they'll get you most of the way there!

    Just drop me a line when you're ready to do the switch and I'll help you out.

    - m
    Free MFX and other plugins: http://www.TenCrazy.com/
    Markleford's music: http://www.markleford.com/music/

  6. #6

    Re: Introduction/Sonar midi questions

    I think you can at least begin entering the notes of your music. But later on you'll have to do some tweaking to various controller curves and perhaps note velocities.
    "Music is a manifestation of the human spirit similar to a language. If we do not want such things to remain dead treasures, we must do our utmost to make the greatest number of people understand their secrets" -- Zoltan Kodaly

  7. #7
    Senior Member rwayland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    California Redwoods

    Re: Introduction/Sonar midi questions

    Well, if you have a good Sonar file, you can convert for GPO use easily, but it may be a bit slower than you like. Depends on how demanding you will be. The plugs will get you going, but you may want to tweak afterwards, or simply draw in CCC#1 values in the piano roll view. It is better to use the VSt version in Sonar, as there is a tempo bug in the DXi plug in.


  8. #8

    Re: Introduction/Sonar midi questions

    Wow guys, thanks so much for the support. I'll let you know when I've made the purchase and am ready to convert. I'll keep these things in mind as I start with the basic arrangements.

    Looks like it may be as early as September!

    Thanks again.
    Earl Green

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