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Topic: Help me understand Stylus RMX

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  1. #1

    Help me understand Stylus RMX

    Firstly, welcome myself to the forum!

    I've been using Stylus since before it was RMX. And I'm very happy and use it quite a lot. I've read the help and watched the video, but there is something about using the Groove Menu I'm missing. And, granted, it may just be the way I want to use it, but there's something that doesn't quite work for me.

    Let's see if I can explain. In Groove Menu Mode, I load up several grooves into the mix, say channels 1 through 4. With the RMX inface open, I can either trigger the start button and all my grooves will play, or I can trigger each of the individual channels and play combinations of grooves. Cool.

    But my problem comes in trying to figure out how to trigger these grooves when RMX is inserted in a project in my host (In this case Sonar 5). RMX doesn't latch to song start: to get it to play I have to engage it from the interface. Okay, well can I use a MIDI keyboard or input device? It doesn't seem that I can. Sure, I can use C3 to trigger the groove in channel 1, but C#3 triggers the next groove *in channel 1*. What I want is to trigger the groove in channel 2, (and channel 3) et cetera.

    I've tried using MIDI learn, but the play buttons don't seem to bind. I've tried sending C3 on consecutive MIDI channels but that doesn't work.

    I would be happy if I could just trigger the main play button or sync it to song start, and then control the parts with the faders. But the only work around I can seem to arrive at is to drag the MIDI parts into seperate lanes in Sonar and trigger RMX with MIDI patterns. The problem with this is that if I'm using RMX for composing, I don't want to have to keep swapping out MIDI parts; I want to arrange in more or less real time and work right from RMX.

    Can someone please point me in the right direction here. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

    Cheers, Puffer, digital lofi

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2

    Re: Help me understand Stylus RMX

    Quote Originally Posted by digital lofi
    Firstly, welcome myself to the forum!
    Welcome!

    I've been using Stylus since before it was RMX. And I'm very happy and use it quite a lot. I've read the help and watched the video, but there is something about using the Groove Menu I'm missing. And, granted, it may just be the way I want to use it, but there's something that doesn't quite work for me.

    Let's see if I can explain. In Groove Menu Mode, I load up several grooves into the mix, say channels 1 through 4.
    Each part has independant MIDI Modes, so if you want Groove Menu mode, you have to select that on every part.

    However, if you simply want to trigger four grooves in Sonar, then Groove Menu mode is way overkill.

    Simply use drag and drop for each part in Slice Menu mode to the appropriate channels in Sonar.


    With the RMX interface open, I can either trigger the start button and all my grooves will play, or I can trigger each of the individual channels and play combinations of grooves. Cool.

    But my problem comes in trying to figure out how to trigger these grooves when RMX is inserted in a project in my host (In this case Sonar 5). RMX doesn't latch to song start: to get it to play I have to engage it from the interface. Okay, well can I use a MIDI keyboard or input device? It doesn't seem that I can. Sure, I can use C3 to trigger the groove in channel 1, but C#3 triggers the next groove *in channel 1*. What I want is to trigger the groove in channel 2, (and channel 3) et cetera.
    Watch the MIDI Modes tutorial again. :-)

    I've tried using MIDI learn, but the play buttons don't seem to bind. I've tried sending C3 on consecutive MIDI channels but that doesn't work.

    I would be happy if I could just trigger the main play button or sync it to song start, and then control the parts with the faders. But the only work around I can seem to arrive at is to drag the MIDI parts into seperate lanes in Sonar and trigger RMX with MIDI patterns. The problem with this is that if I'm using RMX for composing, I don't want to have to keep swapping out MIDI parts; I want to arrange in more or less real time and work right from RMX.

    Can someone please point me in the right direction here. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
    Did you watch the "RMX and Sonar" tutorial video? It shows exactly how to do what you want to do using Sonar:

    http://files.spectrasonics.net/files..._and_Sonar.zip

  3. #3

    Re: Help me understand Stylus RMX

    Quote Originally Posted by spectrum
    Welcome!

    Each part has independant MIDI Modes, so if you want Groove Menu mode, you have to select that on every part.

    However, if you simply want to trigger four grooves in Sonar, then Groove Menu mode is way overkill.

    Simply use drag and drop for each part in Slice Menu mode to the appropriate channels in Sonar.
    Wow, that was quick. Don't you have a new product to develop?

    Seriously, thanks for the response. I apologize if I missed something; sometimes I'm a little thick.

    I do understand about the dragging the parts to Sonar, and ultimately once I get going on a track that is what I do. But RMX is so powerful as a real-time composition tool that for a lot of the process I perfer to have it do the work before off-loading it for finalizing. I'm tweaking not just the part arrangements, but groups and timing and chaos (love chaos by the way - seriously, it's just so much fun and so usable).

    I didn't know that each part had it's own it's own mode. Ah. That makes a lot of sense. I'm curious as to why "overkill" though? I'm definitely gonna brush up on my modes.

    Watch the MIDI Modes tutorial again. :-)
    Indeed I will. Obviously, I need to. Not that I haven't; it's like y'all are my roommates. ;-). No, I probably missed just the thing that I needed.


    Did you watch the "RMX and Sonar" tutorial video? It shows exactly how to do what you want to do using Sonar:
    Well, not really. I see what you're saying, and perhaps I'm just splitting hairs. It indirectly shows how to turns parts on and off via drawing automation, but not how to work it in real-time. Though, come to think of it, assigning that NRPN value to my controller might work... hmm...

    By the by, the video tutorials are a really nice addition to the program; spot on with that. (Though, you know, in Sonar you can actually use track lanes rather than independent MIDI tracks to drive RMX - each lane on a single MIDI track containing the corresponding MIDI part, which, once you get the hang of it, is a much tidier way of managing things.)

    Actually, spot on with most of RMX. There are so many great little details to the program (MIDI templates, REX import, multi-save) that it speaks volumes for your attention to the user.

    Thanks for helping me out while I figure this all out. Thanks for the stellar program.

  4. #4

    Re: Help me understand Stylus RMX

    You're welcome. :-)

    There are numerous ways of using RMX. Groove Menu mode and MIDI Learning the part play buttons to hardware MIDI switches are additional ways of triggering grooves in real-time that are very effective.

  5. #5

    Re: Help me understand Stylus RMX

    Okay, I've had time to go back and study RMX & watch the videos again. And in the end I have to say it seems we were both right.

    Where I was going wrong was trying to bind the part play buttons to MIDI notes (or, more specifically, the pads on TriggerFinger). These need to bound to faders or knobs, what seems to be a definite up(127)/down (1) state. (I can not seem to get the TF pads to run toggle and not transmit a MIDI note which seems to be confusing RMX.)

    The upshot: I know how to bind controllers to the part play buttons. I understand how the Groove Menu works in relation to the parts.

    But *for me* (and I may be alone here), there is a flaw in the design of MIDI control and Groove Menu. I say this with all due respect; I am just one humble user. But I hope my experience will give you something to think about for future fine-tuning of the code. If it's not helpful, that's cool.

    Again, what I'm looking to do: use a range of MIDI notes to launch a collection of grooves as loaded into the Mixer. In Groove Menu MIDI Mode the keys mapped for playing grooves play through the grooves in what the video refers to as a suite. But what I want is to play different grooves from different suites. Well, I could just program each key to transmit on a different MIDI channel. But if the groove I have loaded into, say, mixer channel 3 is the 5th groove in the suite, D3 isn't going to launch the right groove, it's going to launch the first groove in the suite. I'll have to calculate for each Mixer channel which MIDI note I actually have hit to play the part as I've arranged it in the Mixer.

    With me so far?

    So, absolutely, just program knobs/faders to launch the grooves. (I am sure this is how I will work in the future.) But controller keyboards have a limited number of knobs, and it seems rather counterintuitive to have to dedicate those when there's a whole range of notes not being used. In GMMM, aside from the C3 through +, there are no other keys being used. Why not have a range of keys launch the grooves in the mixer? Then the buttons/faders are still available for latching to other features.

    There you have it. My official 2 cents. Take it for what it's worth. Again, I say all this with great respect for the program you have created, and one I enjoy using very much. Perhaps in the next version there will be more simple way to what I want. In the meantime, figuring all this out really helped me further understand RMX. So that's not a bad thing at all.

  6. #6

    Re: Help me understand Stylus RMX

    Quote Originally Posted by digital lofi
    Again, what I'm looking to do: use a range of MIDI notes to launch a collection of grooves as loaded into the Mixer. In Groove Menu MIDI Mode the keys mapped for playing grooves play through the grooves in what the video refers to as a suite. But what I want is to play different grooves from different suites. Well, I could just program each key to transmit on a different MIDI channel. But if the groove I have loaded into, say, mixer channel 3 is the 5th groove in the suite, D3 isn't going to launch the right groove, it's going to launch the first groove in the suite. I'll have to calculate for each Mixer channel which MIDI note I actually have hit to play the part as I've arranged it in the Mixer.
    Couldn't you just collect all the different grooves you've selected from the different MIDI channels (and suites) into a favorites suite and then use that in GMMM? Now each key will trigger one of the grooves you had originally selected and you can do exactly what I think you're trying to do (start/stop each groove with a corresponding key).

    matto

  7. #7

    Re: Help me understand Stylus RMX

    Hi.

    Matto is correct---you can load up to 48 grooves into a single Favorites Suite on a single Part---that means 48 grooves of your choosing laid out across the keyboard when in Groove Menu MIDI Mode. And each Part can load it's own Favorite Suite so you can have hundreds of pre-chosen grooves ready to go across all 8 Parts of RMX.

    There's a video on Favorites, or you can search for the word "Favorites" in the RMX manual---the first hit from the search takes you to the topic you need.

    Cheers.
    -gabe

  8. #8

    Re: Help me understand Stylus RMX

    Yep....Favorites is one very simple solution if you want to use MIDI notes.

    (Watch the Browser Favorties tutorial and you'll see how easy it is.)

    The other solution is to use a better Pad Controller like the Korg Pad Kontrol or the pads from a Korg Kontrol 49.

    The pads on those devices can send Notes or MIDI Controller messages, AND they have latch mode....which is very useful for what you are trying to do.

    Lots of ways to solve that problem. The TriggerFinger may also have a way to send MIDI CCs from the pads instead of notes, but IMHO...it's just not nearly as good a controller as the Korg Pad Kontrol or the Kontrol 49....both of those are ideal to use with RMX.

  9. #9

    Re: Help me understand Stylus RMX

    Thanks for the replies. I really appreciate everyone's help.

    I will definitely check out using favorites to get what I'm after: groups of grooves I can trigger using MIDI notes. Sounds like it might be the ticket.

    As for a different controller, well, I don't have the resources to buy any new hardware. And, actually, there's a lot I like about this controller; I've definitely logged some time programming it to work with my setup. You can definitely send CC info from the pads, and I have them programmed as such. But I did some further reading on a "latch" function of the TriggerFinger, and it seems to be a bug in the driver/firmware of device. If you look at the editor there is a "latch" note on/note off switch you can assign to the pads (148) where the first hit will send a note on and the second a note off. MIDI-Ox shows this as being transmitted as such, but something is getting garbled when actually trying to use this function. Or there's something I'm missing (imagine that!).

    I still think my suggestion of MIDI-notes triggering the grooves as loaded into the mixer is worthwhile investigating. And perhaps some sort of internal latch function for those with less optimum hardware setups.

    Again, thanks for the input. I'll keep working with this. I'm *that* close.

  10. #10

    Re: Help me understand Stylus RMX

    Okay, I gave the favorites a whirl. And while it was good in helping me further my understanding of favorites suites and how this will be helpful, it is an imperfect solution.

    If I load a favorites suite and trigger the grooves from my MIDI keyboard, all of those will be going through whatever channel the suite loaded into. The shortcomings of this are pretty obvious, as it throws out all the advantages of multiple channels and being able to effect/manipulate each one independently.

    But, nevertheless, good info to have.

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