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Topic: Music XML and other programs

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  1. #1

    Music XML and other programs

    Hi - Good to see the Notion people on this forum.

    Is it possible to import and/or translate XML files for use in another program, or to bring MIDI files into Notion? I've searched everywhere, but it seems that any information on Music XML is mostly dating from 2002- 03, and not much recent information for its implications in cross-platform or cross-program use.

    I've seen the Recordare site and read about Dolet, but if I'm not mistaken, this is for use as a Finale plugin (which I don't have).

    Ultimately, i would like to bring my older work done in Logic and/or Cubase (on a mac) into Notion. Conversely, I would like to export some of the Notion work to try out with other libraries in Logic, but neither seems possible at this time. Any ideas?

    Thanks

    gpax

  2. #2

    Re: Music XML and other programs

    GPax,

    MIDI and MusicXML import are located under File->Import/Export. They work really well, in my opinion. Give them a shot and let us know how your scores sound.

    We also have MusicXML export, but have not yet developed MIDI export.

  3. #3

    Re: Music XML and other programs

    Thanks Jason

    Of course, MIDI import right in front of me. My bad.

    To rephrase my inquiry. There seems to be a gap between host-based sequencers and MusicXML support. As one who works primarily through host applications (with scoring features), I'm not aware of any of those programs adopting MusicXML support (Logic, Cubase, DP), or at least I haven't heard of this happening. It would be great if they did as this would marry Notion with my other work environment. Until then, is MIDI export in the pipeline?

    Thanks

    gpax.

  4. #4

    Re: Music XML and other programs

    My first attempts M-XML were enlightening.
    Finale does read them but some text creates some importing errors and there is a lot of re-editing in order to use as a midi file (Finale to SMF).
    (midi ch assignment, tempo, complex note rhythms above 16ths....)

    Also some score material just crashes Notion on export. (But) Tech support indicates a fix tomorrow (Next update).
    The price for integrated sounds could be high for production people. MTC, Rewire and yes MIDI export could (Will) help.

    My next experiment will be to import soloed instrument wav files into melodyne and convert the audio to midi. This should hold some things together.
    Time will be my barrier on this.

    (BTW I use a Clave from the N-tempo track to get my click output)

  5. #5

    Re: Music XML and other programs

    It is on our list of features to add, but it's of relatively low priority. I'd be surprised if it wasn't integrated within the next six months. I know that seems like forever, but it isn't that long in application updating.

    Do all of your host applications use MIDI instead of MusicXML? The reason we prioritized MusicXML over MIDI was because of Finale's and Sibelius' MusicXML export features, giving users the opportunity to transfer scores back and forth between all of the notation programs. Our understanding was that more consumer-level users (mostly music students) wouldn't be using anything more than the most basic notation software. While MIDI export seems to be a need of a lot of people of this forum, our general userbase isn't exactly clamoring for it.

    It will happen, but I can't promise a timeline, and I'm genuinely sorry for that. Unfortunately, I'm only in a position to forward these requests on to our decision-makers, not make them happen myself.

    It sounds like you've come up with some very creative ways around these obstacles. Hopefully as Notion matures, it will become a much more pleasant and inspiring user experience. Thanks for joining with us so early in the game, and with your feedback, I'm confident that we will get there soon.

  6. #6

    Re: Music XML and other programs

    Hi Jason

    Well it is a great program, that's for sure. To answer your question, no, none of the three programs I am familiar with import M-XML, nor is there any indication they will. As these are primarily audio/sequencing programs with scoring options, I'm guessing there is little need for anything apart from MIDI import/export.

    Your point about those working within a notation-only environment is well taken. I wouldn't underestimate the advantages of having more import/export options, though.

    best
    gpax

  7. #7

    Re: Music XML and other programs

    Quote Originally Posted by gpax
    Your point about those working within a notation-only environment is well taken. I wouldn't underestimate the advantages of having more import/export options, though.
    Certainly not. Part of the issue comes in the fact that our application is written in XML, and is not MIDI-based at any point in its code. This makes MusicXML import/export infinitely easier than MIDI input/import/export.

  8. #8

    Re: Music XML and other programs

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Windsor
    It is on our list of features to add, but it's of relatively low priority. I'd be surprised if it wasn't integrated within the next six months. I know that seems like forever, but it isn't that long in application updating.

    Do all of your host applications use MIDI instead of MusicXML? The reason we prioritized MusicXML over MIDI was because of Finale's and Sibelius' MusicXML export features, giving users the opportunity to transfer scores back and forth between all of the notation programs. Our understanding was that more consumer-level users (mostly music students) wouldn't be using anything more than the most basic notation software. While MIDI export seems to be a need of a lot of people of this forum, our general userbase isn't exactly clamoring for it.

    It will happen, but I can't promise a timeline, and I'm genuinely sorry for that. Unfortunately, I'm only in a position to forward these requests on to our decision-makers, not make them happen myself.

    It sounds like you've come up with some very creative ways around these obstacles. Hopefully as Notion matures, it will become a much more pleasant and inspiring user experience. Thanks for joining with us so early in the game, and with your feedback, I'm confident that we will get there soon.
    Another vote for midi capabilities. I have need for hybrid music - orchestra plus drums or a synth or electric bass etc.

    Yes, I can mix it all later in a sequencer but it would be much better to hear it already while composing. A midi bridge to another host like energyXt or a Vst interface would do it.

    NOTION seems to be a great standalone program but for professional use some interface with other sound sources would be indispensable as soon as you leave "stage only" music - which is the case with all music for meda.


    Hannes
    All your strings belong to me!
    www.strings-on-demand.com

  9. #9

    Re: Music XML and other programs

    What some have found useful is the ability to export as .wav, allowing them to trigger entire sections with a MIDI cue. You could go as far as exporting each instrument as its own .wav (by soloing the instrument in the mixer, then exporting). There are creative ways to use NOTION until that fateful day when we add MIDI export.

  10. #10

    Re: Music XML and other programs

    Hi Jason

    After re-reading these posts, I realize that I was perhaps asking for Notion to be something that it is not. In that vein, what a developer might see as a "request," a particular user might also see as a "limitation." You say "fateful," I say "delightful." But the fault rests with me in that Notion has not claimed to be anything other than what it is.

    In terms of the approach that Hannes_F mentioned, I think what's happening is that someone like myself comes to Notion for its potential integration into a workflow, but perhaps without a real grasp of what the intended market/user base really is. When I first previewed Notion at Macworld, I made assumptions (in the midst of being blown away), and to be honest, didn't know enough to ask about Music-XML at the time. I hadn't used a notation program in years, and hence, when I talked to the reps about "integration" within my particular workflow, it's now clear I was having a different conversation.

    This point was driven home on the day Notion arrived last Spring, as I went looking for ways to export my work. A google seach for Music-XML revealed very little, except for one particular group - which I'm sure you're familiar with - offering "translation services" between various applications. At one point during that evening, I not only experienced the sinking feeling that I would NOT be able to export my work via MIDI into my particular workflow, but that I actually did not fit that intended user base.

    Now I believe Notion is a great program for a specific audience, and it seems ridiculous to challenge what it's intentions are, or who it's intended user is. Obviously you regard Music-XML as a de facto, and indeed it is among a particular demographic, which I can only assume is big enough to sustain Notion's success. At least that's what's implied from dismissive comments about MIDI-based composition. I don't think you mean anything pejorative here, but I am curious why you refer to MIDI export as "that fateful day."

    That pretty much sums up my experience thus far, and a growing (mis?)perception that Notion is actually geared toward disuading a cross-section of potential users. If I could offer any advice to pass on to makerting, it's to be very explicit as to who your intended user base is, and to the specifics of what a MusicXML - based application means to any MIDI-based composers looking at Notion.

    pax

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