Music XML and other programs

[Jason Windsor]

Hi Jason

After re-reading these posts, I realize that I was perhaps asking for Notion to be something that it is not. In that vein, what a developer might see as a "request," a particular user might also see as a "limitation." You say "fateful," I say "delightful." But the fault rests with me in that Notion has not claimed to be anything other than what it is.

In terms of the approach that Hannes_F mentioned, I think what's happening is that someone like myself comes to Notion for its potential integration into a workflow, but perhaps without a real grasp of what the intended market/user base really is. When I first previewed Notion at Macworld, I made assumptions (in the midst of being blown away), and to be honest, didn't know enough to ask about Music-XML at the time. I hadn't used a notation program in years, and hence, when I talked to the reps about "integration" within my particular workflow, it's now clear I was having a different conversation.

This point was driven home on the day Notion arrived last Spring, as I went looking for ways to export my work. A google seach for Music-XML revealed very little, except for one particular group - which I'm sure you're familiar with - offering "translation services" between various applications. At one point during that evening, I not only experienced the sinking feeling that I would NOT be able to export my work via MIDI into my particular workflow, but that I actually did not fit that intended user base.

Now I believe Notion is a great program for a specific audience, and it seems ridiculous to challenge what it's intentions are, or who it's intended user is. Obviously you regard Music-XML as a de facto, and indeed it is among a particular demographic, which I can only assume is big enough to sustain Notion's success. At least that's what's implied from dismissive comments about MIDI-based composition. I don't think you mean anything pejorative here, but I am curious why you refer to MIDI export as "that fateful day."

That pretty much sums up my experience thus far, and a growing (mis?)perception that Notion is actually geared toward disuading a cross-section of potential users. If I could offer any advice to pass on to makerting, it's to be very explicit as to who your intended user base is, and to the specifics of what a MusicXML - based application means to any MIDI-based composers looking at Notion.

pax

If anything I said seemed pejorative, I apologize. That's certainly not how I intended it. My phrase "fateful day" only meant that it will happen; that it is part of our overall plan.

I also meant no disrespect to those who use MIDI. The reality is that we chose a specific platform on which to develop our program (Music XML, for many reasons, not the least of which was to more efficiantly allow Finale and Sibelius users to import their scores in Notion), and as such, it is more difficult to add MIDI capabilities. We implemented MIDI Input and Import, but MIDI Export has proven much more time-consuming and difficult. Because we are a software start-up, our development is driven by sales, and the low demand for MIDI Export among potential buyers has put M.E. farther down our development roadmap than we anticipated. Right now, the best answer I can give you is "in a few months", vague as it is.

Re: Marketing. Unfortunately, our marketing dept. has the unenviable job of being clear and honest on our packaging while also appealing to potential buyers. I'm not adept enough at marketing to know how exactly we could properly list the things we don't do in our adverts and packaging. The hope is that buyers would educate themselves before making such a purchase, including but not limited to ordering a free demo, and that there are enough resources in the writings of reviews and press releases to give a clear picture of what we are capable of now and what we eventually hope to be capable of.

Sentence-ending prepositions aside, we welcome your feedback, even when it's difficult, and continue to hope that you will not hold back, and I pledge to provide you with the most information I can as early as I'm allowed.
---Jason

[musicxml]

At Recordare we do realize that sequencer support is currently the weak link in MusicXML's industry support. We have been talking with all the major sequencer vendors about adding MusicXML support to their products. This is something that is a lot more interesting to them now that Finale, Sibelius, and Notion all have MusicXML support on both Mac and Windows.

But it means more when they hear from customers like you than from vendors like us. So let Apple / Steinberg / MOTU / Cakewalk (or anyone I have left out) know that you want to see them add MusicXML support in future versions of their products. The more people let them know this, the more likely it is that this support will happen sooner rather than later.

Best regards,

Michael Good
Recordare LLC
www.recordare.com

[foxc]

I'm having some trouble with MIDI import. I have a piece (145 bars, tempo changes, time sig changes, 38 staves) that crashes Notion (demo, with Realize Music update). Shorter pieces have worked. I'm not sure which part of this piece is doing it, length or some MIDI thing that's in it.

I did just try to take a few staves of it and had some better luck so there's hope (if I could copy/paste to a single score in Notion), but tuplets and measure lengths were often off-the-mark.

Any tricks to getting a clean MIDI import? I'm coming from Sibelius, so things are quantized -- I just don't know if it's possible to get 5-, 6-, and 7-tuplets all to import cleanly (with any notation program, for that matter!)

Thanks.

[stoverje]

I also have some trouble with some MIDI file imports and crashing of NOTION. But, I am really having a problem with MusicXML files I export from Finale 2007 using the Dolet 3.x plug-in to export. Many times, these MusicXML files crash NOTION when importing them. I noticed Finale files with Human Playback causes crashing of NOTION most of the time (MusicXML files from Finale).

I don't know what to change or what to do to get the files to import into NOTION.

Jim Stover
Dawsonville, GA

[Lurker]

I've also had problems with MIDI and MusicXML importing, and I reallly wish I could export in XML as well.

I have managed to get some large slabs of score into NOTION via Midi, but each time the program became very unstable and stopped doing many things. Maybe none of these were specifically linked to importing, but I can't help thinking that the many inaccuracies and strange distortions made by the import process might well have caused these problems.

MusicXML was not good. I got hold of a number of files to test this out, and compared them in .pdf format to the results of importing into NOTION and Sibelius. Sibelius almost always performed well, though it did issue the occasional warning message. NOTION nearly always did not perform well, and in the end I didn't try to use MusicXML in any serious way.

I appreciate that the original philosophy of NOTION is to provide all the facilities needed in one program - a noble aim, and one I hope comes to fruition. But at the moment it seems necessary to use other software in conjunction with NOTION for some things, and import/export would make this a reasonable proposition.

In particular I can see many people wanting to use NOTION's playback with scores made in other applications, but that doesn't yet seem to me to be a practical possibility for anything of any length or size of ensemble.

[gpax]

Though it's been three years since this thread was started, I couldn't resist pointing out that Notion 3 seems to now be a paradigm shift from what was initially discussed here in 2006.

I'm thrilled to see this, and know it was no small task to redirect Notion's features in a way that would appeal to the needs of a wider user base. It's interesting to take a trip down memory lane here, and see just how much things have changed since.

pax