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Topic: gpo articulation issues

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  1. #1

    gpo articulation issues

    I am using GPO with SONAR 5. 3 things don't seem to work right.
    1. I am not able to get vibrato (cc#17) to work for the flute NV. I draw the controller changes in sonar but nothing seems to happen.

    2. Strings seem to respond to the strength of the attack on the keyboard, (light touch = light attack, heavy touch = louder attack). When I try to change the keyboard touch for flute or french horn, the sound is a constant volume, no change in loudness or softness on attack. The modulation wheel seems to work fine on all the instruments that I tried it on.

    3. Legato(using the sustain pedal) does not seem to work on any instrument. It does work as expected for piano(sustaining notes) but when I try to get a legato effect with strings, horns or any other instrument, it does not work. I did set the the options/pedal mode to the second option as described in another message on this forum. It did not work. I do have a creative labs audigy sound card, and I did load ASIOALL and the KX driver. I was able to select ASIO options on the audio options in SONAR. Any advice would be helpfull.

  2. #2

    Re: gpo articulation issues

    Quote Originally Posted by jaynkate01
    I am using GPO with SONAR 5. 3 things don't seem to work right.
    1. I am not able to get vibrato (cc#17) to work for the flute NV. I draw the controller changes in sonar but nothing seems to happen.

    2. Strings seem to respond to the strength of the attack on the keyboard, (light touch = light attack, heavy touch = louder attack). When I try to change the keyboard touch for flute or french horn, the sound is a constant volume, no change in loudness or softness on attack. The modulation wheel seems to work fine on all the instruments that I tried it on.

    3. Legato(using the sustain pedal) does not seem to work on any instrument. It does work as expected for piano(sustaining notes) but when I try to get a legato effect with strings, horns or any other instrument, it does not work. I did set the the options/pedal mode to the second option as described in another message on this forum. It did not work. I do have a creative labs audigy sound card, and I did load ASIOALL and the KX driver. I was able to select ASIO options on the audio options in SONAR. Any advice would be helpfull.
    Do you use the updated version of GPO (x-folder instruments)? Then you should get vibrato by using aftertouch.

    Legato works very well by overlapping the notes a little bit, just if you had to play a legato on the piano without the pedal.

    I am sure there are more answers but this is what I can say quickly.


    Hannes
    All your strings belong to me!
    www.strings-on-demand.com

  3. #3

    Re: gpo articulation issues

    Re 1.) CC#17 controls vibrato speed and Aftertouch controls vibrato intensity. If Aftertouch = 0 you can do whatever you like with CC#17; you won't get any vibrato.

    Re 3.) You are not by any chance using the "9. Notation" instruments, are you? Because they use CC#68 for legato instead of CC#64. And, as Hannes rightly pointed out, a slight note overlap is crucial.

  4. #4

    Re: gpo articulation issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Hannes_F
    Do you use the updated version of GPO (x-folder instruments)? Then you should get vibrato by using aftertouch.
    I will have a look. I have the x-folder installed but couldn't find any description how and when to use this.


    Legato works very well by overlapping the notes a little bit, just if you had to play a legato on the piano without the pedal.
    Do you really mean that we pianists should hold the first note while the second is about to be played and that for a very short duration two notes are sounding? I don't think so. I learned that there are two different approaches. One is exactly what you wrote and the other is holding the "old note" during the "attack time" of the following, until the hammer really hits the string. As far as I see it, the translation in Midi is that the "old note" ends [in ticks] where the "new note" begins. In numbers: note 1: start-time 1.1.000 - duration 900 [Sonar set to 900] - so end-time is 1.2.000 and that is exactly the start-time of the next note.

    Correct me when I am wrong, please.

    Raymond

  5. #5

    Re: gpo articulation issues

    Nickie and Hannes, jaynkate01 is right. I tried it in Overture4 but even with GPO's latest update and Aftertouch other than zero I did'nt get any vibrato at all.

    Gerard

  6. #6

    Re: gpo articulation issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond62
    Correct me when I am wrong, please.
    OK, you are being corrected! In the world of GPO MIDI the end of the first note must overlap the start of the subsequent note if you wish the legato switching to work properly. For the standard instruments (not the notation folder) make sure that you have the pedal mode in the Options menu set to pedal mode #2 for all wind and sustain string instruments. They require this mode for the tongue/slur - legato mode to work as designed. Some other instruments, like piano, require the standard pedal mode #1. Also, polyphony must be set to "1" for wind instruments. This is the default setting. Notation folder instruments, on the other hand, work exclusively in pedal mode #1 because notation needs are different. This has been discussed many times on the forum. You may wish to do a search for my comments in previous threads.

    Now, back to your original post:

    1. The others have answered the vibrato question correctly. Aftertouch is intensity, cc17 is speed. Speed without bringing up the intensity will get you nothing. Remember too, that only certain instruments have this feature: The solo non-vibrato instruments. Any instrument with a recorded vibrato will not support this feature. If you are not getting vibrato from an instrument when you apply Aftertouch/cc17 then check to be sure that you are using one of the instruments that actually supports this feature. As an example, "Flute Solo V" has actual recorded vibrato so it cannot be controlled by Aftertouch whereas "Flute Solo NV" *does* support Aftertouch/cc17. Section building "Plr" instruments do not support this feature either - just solo NV.

    2. Velocity controls attack strength (not to be confused with volume, which is controlled with cc1 data.) Velocities below about 25 give gentle attacks. These become increasingly pointed as velocity increases and high velocities (above about 100) give accented attacks. The exact values vary with the particular instrument.

    3. Discussed above.

    Tom

  7. #7

    Re: gpo articulation issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Hopkins
    1. The others have answered the vibrato question correctly. Aftertouch is intensity, cc17 is speed. Speed without bringing up the intensity will get you nothing. Remember too, that only certain instruments have this feature: The solo non-vibrato instruments. Any instrument with a recorded vibrato will not support this feature. If you are not getting vibrato from an instrument when you apply Aftertouch/cc17 then check to be sure that you are using one of the instruments that actually supports this feature. As an example, "Flute Solo V" has actual recorded vibrato so it cannot be controlled by Aftertouch whereas "Flute Solo NV" *does* support Aftertouch/cc17. Section building "Plr" instruments do not support this feature either - just solo NV.

    Tom
    In an attempt to help the original poster I tried to recreate his problem, not in Sonar 5 but in Overture 4. I loaded flute solo NV in GPO and because there is no aftertouch on my MIDI keyboard, I used the Aftertouch controller in Overture 4. Then I have drawn in cc17 but didn't succeed in letting flute NV vibrate. I don't know what I am doing wrong.
    My version of GPO is 1.1.8.3 and the date of the instrument libraries is 18-10-2005. As far as I know that is the newest update.

    Regards

    Gerard

  8. #8

    Re: gpo articulation issues

    I just tried the Flute Solo NV from folder 1.1 as well as from folder 9.1.1 (Notation) in Kontakt 2. Since my keyboard doesn't have Aftertouch, I replaced the Aftertouch modulation with CC#18 modulation, which does the same job and it worked as it should. But you will need to set CC#17 quite high (>80) to get a reasonably sounding vibrato.

  9. #9

    Re: gpo articulation issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickie Fønshauge
    I just tried the Flute Solo NV from folder 1.1 as well as from folder 9.1.1 (Notation) in Kontakt 2. Since my keyboard doesn't have Aftertouch, I replaced the Aftertouch modulation with CC#18 modulation, which does the same job and it worked as it should. But you will need to set CC#17 quite high (>80) to get a reasonably sounding vibrato.
    Thanks for your answer Nickie. Now I have to continue my study of Kontakt 2 to find out how to realize what you described.
    Regards,
    Gerard

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