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Topic: still have articulation problems

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  1. #1

    still have articulation problems

    I posted about 2 weeks ago about articulation problems that I have. I just recently was able to try suggestions made. No matter what I do, I cannot get legato to work. I set sustain mode to the 2nd option on the player. I make sure that the polyphony is set correctly(1 for winds and brass, 4 or > for strings). I have made sure that I have the latest updates(gpo, sonar 5, overture 4). I made sure that the notes overlapped a little in the piano view in both overture and sonar. I have drawn in cc64 (values 0-64 for up pedal, values 65 > for down pedal.) On down pedal, for strings I hear the overlapped portion of 2 adjacent notes sounding together, not creating any smooth legato sound. For flute nv, I just do not hear a legato effect. There is no difference in the legato when I have the pedal up or down. I was also trying the portamento controller cc#20. It would not work at all, until I also added cc#64 pedal down. It seems that me and my controllers are confused. Any advice would be appreciated.

  2. #2

    Re: still have articulation problems

    Please post your SONAR project file and some of us sonarians can take a look.
    Bill

  3. #3

    Re: still have articulation problems

    Sounds like you're doing everything right. The only last thing I can think of that affects vibrato is the latency setting. Any very high setting starts to negate the legato effect.

    It might also be helpful if you made an mp3 of with and without and posted them here.
    - Jamie Kowalski

    All Hands Music - Kowalski on the web
    The Ear Is Always Correct - Writings on composition

  4. #4

    Re: still have articulation problems

    In your original post, I don't think anyone mentioned that if your velocity values are too high, the legato effect can be lost, even if you're doing everything else correctly. If you are entering notes into SONAR from the staff view or the piano roll, the default velocity (100) is too high to get a good legato effect. If this is the case, try reducing the velocities down around 30-40 or so and see if that changes things.

    Also, in an old thread started by Jamie (Skysaw) we saw that if your soundcard latency is very high, the legato effect may not work properly or at all.
    Bill

  5. #5

    Re: still have articulation problems

    Quote Originally Posted by billp
    In your original post, I don't think anyone mentioned that if your velocity values are too high, the legato effect can be lost, even if you're doing everything else correctly. If you are entering notes into SONAR from the staff view or the piano roll, the default velocity (100) is too high to get a good legato effect. If this is the case, try reducing the velocities down around 30-40 or so and see if that changes things.
    Hmm... this has not been my experience at all. I find that in a series of notes all connected via legato mode, only the velocity of the first note makes any difference. The only exception seems to be with the strings short+sustained patches, which have a legato layer and a non-legato layer combined.
    - Jamie Kowalski

    All Hands Music - Kowalski on the web
    The Ear Is Always Correct - Writings on composition

  6. #6

    Re: still have articulation problems

    How do I post my sonar file to be looked at. By the way, I did lower the velocity values and it did not make a difference. I think my latency is fairly low. (mixing latency on audio in sonar is 5.0 msec with a sampling rate of 48000. I am using a an SB audigy 2zs card. I have installed the ASIO4all on my computer. Could this be the problem? I also have the same issues when I use overture 4.

  7. #7

    Re: still have articulation problems

    For GPO, it is important to mention that the cc64 sustain pedal data in a particular phrase, must be up before the first note of the phrase, and down before the second note and stay there until the player breathes or rests. Then repeat.

    Using the cc64 pedal does not connect notes, it only instructs the Kontakt player to remove the attack sound of the note, which is what would happen in real life.

    It is important to make sure that the notes do connect to each other, and sometimes depending on the instrument, it is good practice to overlap the notes ever so slightly.
    I hope that helps this topic.
    Dan

  8. #8

    Re: still have articulation problems

    Jamie,
    It's pretty easy to demonstrate the difference, say at velocities of 100 and 32. Even though the legato effect is engaged in both cases, and partially mitigating the attack, the high velocity causes even the legato notes to be accented enough to partially defeat the smoothing effect of legato. The lower velocities create a much smoother series of envelopes.

    Purely theoretically, there would be almost no attack after the first note of a legato passage with winds.
    Bill

  9. #9

    Re: still have articulation problems

    What kind of sounds cards work good with GPO. I have creative labs sb audigy 2zs. I am thinking that this might be my problem. Does anyone have any ideas on this.

  10. #10
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    Re: still have articulation problems

    I find the best way to check if legato is working is to play a quick run first without the sustain pedal (CC64). Listen to the attack of the notes. You should hear more attack and the notes usually will respond a little slower. Then press the sustain pedal down and play the same run. You should now hear less attack and the notes should respond faster.

    Jim

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