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Topic: No Edit Mode? No Alternative Tuning!

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  1. #1

    No Edit Mode? No Alternative Tuning!

    I posted on the tech questions forum about not being able to find the "Edit" mode in Kontakt 2 - there's a cog wheel where the wrench normally is. While I wait for a reply, I have been reading around, and my surmission is that the developers have locked the edit mode. I assume this is to protect their samples, etc.

    While that's fine, and I understand, it is a bit perturbing to me.

    When I did my study on the Strad before purchasing it, one of the reasons I purchased was that it used Kontakt2. I am very familiar with this software and use it regularly. One of the most important features, for me, is the extensive capability to use alternative tunings - harmonic, 24ET, slendro, arabic, etc. I assumed that I would be able to do this with STrad.

    So, my question is this - by locking the edit mode, am I not able to use alt tunings anymore?

    That would be a drag. If so, you should really make this much clearer in your promotional copy, for the growing few of us who do use alt tunings.

    Great sound, otherwise.

    Andrew

  2. #2

    Re: No Edit Mode? No Alternative Tuning!

    Wow, I didn't notice the lack of support for alternate tunings. I agree that this is important to include!
    - Jamie Kowalski

    All Hands Music - Kowalski on the web
    The Ear Is Always Correct - Writings on composition

  3. #3
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    Re: No Edit Mode? No Alternative Tuning!

    This is one of the very first libraries with the Kontakt 2 Player and we are all learning the benefits and limitations. A player version has different use than a library and it is more limited and, AFAIK, nowhere was it stated in promotional copy that one can edit in Kontakt 2.

    We as developers are bound by certain limitations with the player and must work with what we have at our disposal.We'll contact NI and see what can be done. Having the ability to do alternate tunings would be neat.

    We do want all our users to have a good experience with the instrument and will strive for that goal.

    Gary Garritan

  4. #4

    Re: No Edit Mode? No Alternative Tuning!

    Quote Originally Posted by Garritan
    We do want all our users to have a good experience with the instrument and will strive for that goal.

    Gary Garritan
    Hi, if I my join, I have more that once wished to use the edit mode for modifying or narrowing down the library to my needs in a certain project; e.g. at the moment I'd love to play *only* the harmonics, but polyphonically and chromatically. But then with three instances of Kontakt. This is the field between the simulation of the real thing (which is the intention of this product) and electronic manipulation and metamorphosis that interests me (and not only me).
    My big wish would be - if not an edit mode - a collection of additional, specialiced instruments which feature single articulations, which transpose, which maybe use different playback algorythms. Such things - I don't think it is extremely complicated to provide...

    Of course that's just a request - and the instrument in its current form does brilliantly what it claims and is supposed to.

    best

    ulrich
    Uli Reuter
    film composer, Germany

  5. #5

    Re: No Edit Mode? No Alternative Tuning!

    I have thought about Gary's response a great deal, I have consulted my trusty Ouija board, read some bird entrails, and I think what he's really saying is this: the PLAYER version of Kontak2, as opposed to the full Kontakt2 allows him to lock his samples so they can't be used for nefarious purposes. In the vast menu of trade-offs in this world, that was more important to him and the development team than the access some percentage of us want to edit (eg alt tunings, articulations, etc).

    I respect that. The team has put a lot of hard work into this instrument, and they deserve to hold onto what's theirs. Plus, we all know this world is not that far from a moral quagmire (the samples would be stolen away in the dead of night and taken to Gitmo and tortured until they agree to play on Kevin Federline's next CD).

    So, Gary and team, as you move forward (and I guess the folks at K2 should read this as well), please come up with a quick update release of the K2 PLAYER that allows us access to the Edit mode for tunings and articulations, but doesn't give away the farm. You can even make it a cost-extra option - I'd pay a bit more for the pleasure. Besides, your stuff has the best cost/benefit ratio of any high quality instrument out there.

    Sound good?

    Excellent (a la Mr. Burns).

    Andrew

  6. #6

    Re: No Edit Mode? No Alternative Tuning!

    I have thought about Gary's response a great deal, I have consulted my trusty Ouija board, read some bird entrails, and I think what he's really saying is this: the PLAYER version of Kontak2, as opposed to the full Kontakt2 allows him to lock his samples so they can't be used for nefarious purposes. In the vast menu of trade-offs in this world, that was more important to him and the development team than the access some percentage of us want to edit (eg alt tunings, articulations, etc).

    I respect that. The team has put a lot of hard work into this instrument, and they deserve to hold onto what's theirs. Plus, we all know this world is not that far from a moral quagmire (the samples would be stolen away in the dead of night and taken to Gitmo and tortured until they agree to play on Kevin Federline's next CD).

    So, Gary and team, as you move forward (and I guess the folks at K2 should read this as well), please come up with a quick update release of the K2 PLAYER that allows us access to the Edit mode for tunings and articulations, but doesn't give away the farm. You can even make it a cost-extra option - I'd pay a bit more for the pleasure. Besides, your stuff has the best cost/benefit ratio of any high quality instrument out there.

    Sound good?

    Excellent (a la Mr. Burns).

    Andrew

  7. #7

    Re: No Edit Mode? No Alternative Tuning!

    Apparently, it is completely up to the developer as to what parameters we can edit and which we can't in K2.

    Refer to the "fed up" thread in the Virtual Instruments section of this forum.

    Hopefully this will soon be addressed in Strad 2.

    nhb

  8. #8

    Re: No Edit Mode? No Alternative Tuning!

    I'd like to second that I find this level of locking to be annoying, it is rather limiting. I love this library, but it is a bummer that I can't add additional KSPs, can't change microtuning, and can't tweak some of the internals. I could have totally understood locking the KSP scripts that are the guts of why this instrument is so playable (which can be done). Also, locking the sample export would be fine, but locking out all the edit functionality is pretty heavy handed.

    I can understand making a statement of "AFAIK, nowhere was it stated in promotional copy that one can edit in Kontakt 2." However on the other side, I didn't even know it was possible to lock the editing of Kontakt 2 out this much. No other Kontakt/Kompakt library I've seen has locked more than the KSP scripts and/or the ability to export samples (due to monolith files,) and I have quite a few of them.

    Hopefully there's a good compromise that allows us the flexibility we've come to expect (or at least most of it) from Kompakt/Kontakt libraries and protects your interests as well.

    -Eric

  9. #9

    Re: No Edit Mode? No Alternative Tuning!

    I know this is an old thread, but I wonder if anyone has come up with any solution to this problem.

    I've been using both the Gofriller and the Strad for a while now, but now I'm interested in using them in some compositions using Just Intonation. It's really easy to use the scripts developed at www.nonoctave.com (great product, BTW) to retune my sampled pianos to Just Intonation. But the Strad and Gofriller seem to have all scripting ability of any kind locked up. As the previous poster said, this seems really heavy handed. I'd like to use the Garritan products for this project because one, they're more playable live than any other, and two, I already paid for them and I'd hate to have to buy a whole different set of libraries.
    Ideas?

    Brendan

  10. #10

    Re: No Edit Mode? No Alternative Tuning!

    Quote Originally Posted by chicagocat View Post
    I know this is an old thread, but I wonder if anyone has come up with any solution to this problem.

    I've been using both the Gofriller and the Strad for a while now, but now I'm interested in using them in some compositions using Just Intonation. It's really easy to use the scripts developed at www.nonoctave.com (great product, BTW) to retune my sampled pianos to Just Intonation. But the Strad and Gofriller seem to have all scripting ability of any kind locked up. As the previous poster said, this seems really heavy handed. I'd like to use the Garritan products for this project because one, they're more playable live than any other, and two, I already paid for them and I'd hate to have to buy a whole different set of libraries.
    Ideas?

    Brendan
    Hi Brendan,

    Permit me to disagree with you on referring to locking the scripts as a heavy handed action. There's a lot of innovative programming going on under the hood, which at the time of product release was unique to these instruments. To me, it is perfectly reasonable to restrict access to the script, although I agree with you that restricting access to the sample editing can be frustrating.

    If you are patient, I would recommend waiting for the new solo string subcollection of GOS2 (or the strings in GPO4). These instruments, powered by the ARIA engine, will natively support various tuning scales using imported scala files. They are also expected to be easily made highly expressive.

    If you are looking for a more immediate solution, I would look into using some sort of MIDI processing script to filter your MIDI information. If you are in SONAR, the CAL scripting language is an excellent place to start. I am unfamiliar with other program workarounds, though there may be an MFX or VST plugin out there that can take MIDI data and apply the necessary pitchbend to it to correspond to whatever scale you need.

    Best of luck,
    Reegs

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