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Topic: Anyone using Vista already?

  1. #1

    Anyone using Vista already?

    Is anyone using Vista (RTM or beta) with pro audio software? What do you think about it?
    []'s, Fabrício Zuccherato
    Wormhole Studios

  2. #2

    Re: Anyone using Vista already?


    Without native drivers for Vista (Realtime audio/ wasapi drivers), you will not get enhanced Audio features for pro audio.

    For example, my ESI Waveterminal 192X doesn't work in 24 bit mode (Windows crash) with the latest build of Vista.

    The E-WDM driver model doesn't work with RTM.

    Vista without native driver support is useless. If you use unsigned old Xp drivers, you have just a buggy WDM/MME and WDM/KS emulation.

    Where are the beta drivers for vista from :

    M-audio ?
    Esi pro ?
    Emu pro ?

    You have only 100% Vista driver with HD audio chipset such Realtek.

    Should we use poor HDaudio chipset to have a better driver support for Vista ?


  3. #3

    Re: Anyone using Vista already?

    What are those enhancements for pro audio? I've heard of wasapi but what does it actually do that ASIO doesn't?
    For mind-boggling music:


  4. #4

    Re: Anyone using Vista already?

    For what it's worth, I was able to get M-Audio Firewire 410 drivers to work fine on Vista Beta 2. The standard Windows XP drivers worked fine as far as I was able to tell. I couldn't test ASIO though since I couldn't get cubase to run.

    When trying to install the driver it complains of an incompatible OS and quits, so the trick is to run the installation program in Win-XP compatibility mode. This trick may also work for other sound card drivers, on the interim when native drivers are not available yet.

    I haven't tested RC1 or 2 since Vista release is just around the corner.

  5. #5

    Re: Anyone using Vista already?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pando
    I couldn't test ASIO though since I couldn't get cubase to run.
    The Cubase problem was a Microsoft issue, not a Steinberg issue. It also affected Sony Acid and Cinescore products as well as Nuendo. These products should be working anytime after RC1 - and especially in the RTM (Release to Manufacturing - the final version).

    There was another problem with Cubase 4 and Vista RTM, but that's a separate issue. You should check out the Steinberg site for more information on work-arounds and fixes on Cubase SX4.
    Last edited by Pat Azzarello; 11-29-2006 at 01:53 PM.
    Pat Azzarello

  6. #6

    Re: Anyone using Vista already?

    Vista comes with Internet Explorer 7. Please wait at least 3 to 6 months before you install Internet Explorer 7. Most software makers will need to provide patches for their software in order for it to work properly with Internet Explorer 7.

    I downloaded Internet Explorer 7 and it took more than ten hours of phone time with several Microsoft technicians before I found one that knew how to delete the files that had been corruped and re-install the Internet Explorer 6 files. Be patient and wait and then install IE 7. I will reinstall it 3 to 6 months after its actual release.

  7. #7

    Re: Anyone using Vista already?

    OK - hold on a second here - I have IE7 working fine - both in WinXPSP2 and Vista x64 (two separate boot images on my main hard drive), so I don't think this is a general problem with IE7 but is an issue with your particular machine. Your experience is not the basis for generalized advice on a discussion forum - if it had been happening for a substantial portion of users in the field then it would be a different story.

    Quite frankly, if you don't have a solid backup and restore plan for times when installs go bad (regardless if it's a problem with the installer or your machine) there's no good time to run a major upgrade on your system. I can be back up and running one hour after I start a restore for one of my main OS partitions.

    As far as running Vista is concerned, I can only speak for the x64 variety, as I've not put the 32-bit version on my machine yet. I can run FASoft's nTrack and Plogue's Bidule in 64-bit mode. I've also run Cubase4 on it, but just enough to check a few things but I've not created a project or anything so daring as of yet.

    For audio and MIDI on Vista, I picked up Edirol's UM-1ex (MIDI) and UA-1ex (audio) which work fine as long as the "Advanced" driver switch on the device is off. This allows Vista to mount each as a standard USB Audio Device. I haven't done many audio throughput latency tests with it, but I've controlled nTrack's built-in drum machine from a MIDI keyboard and the feel was very good. There aren't too many other x64 VSTi out there, but iZotope has released x64 versions of their effects plugins and they sound great (and look great) and seem to actually use *less* CPU than their 32-bit counterparts. I don't know if this is due to the audio DSP optimization (SSE2) or because the screen updates for the UI are now routed through the new Vista WDDM (with hardware assist for screen rendering from the GPU on the video card). If I see the same kind of improvement for all of the other graphics-heavy VSTs and VSTis (Arturia's plugs come to mind) then I'll be a very, very happy camper.

    The user experience is really, really nice - particularly with the Aero interface enabled. Overall I'd say my main concern is the amount of OS overhead in system memory. Some people try to blame Aero for this, but I've run with performance options set to both "best appearance" and "best performance" with a minimal change in the amount of memory consumed (compared to the overall 600-700MB hit that you take). So, for those folks that are accustomed to running a config where you're running with no virtual/paging memory to keep audio-related stuff from being written out of memory to the hard drive (thinking of a sampler's audio file pre-load) - you may need to re-think the strategy a bit. There's a new feature that allows a thumb drive to be mounted as an adjunct to system memory, so perhaps that will become a common practice for PC DAW users. Then again, Vista's paging scheme might be smart enough now to force only the "right" things to virtual memory so that performance is not impacted. Likewise, if your sampler has controls in place to prevent pre-load from being written to virtual memory (like Kontakt) then you should be fairly safe - although my next question would be "what happens when every app is contending for system memory using the same method that Kontakt uses?" which will probably be answered by Vista in some clever way - stay tuned on that.

    Vista isn't ready for prime-time as an audio production platform, but so far things look really promising. The jury's still out on a lot of factors that we now think of as "necessary" for DAW usage on a PC. Settling out those issues will require developers to release x64 versions of their plugins, manufacturers to produce updated audio drivers for their interfaces, and support from Microsoft and the user community to come up with the right set of "tweaks". At the end of the day I think there will be a great deal of "un-learning" things that DAW users had to "know" to get audio to really sing in XP, more than anything special that will be required of Vista. But getting from here to there will take some time, some patience, and a lot of software updates.
    Houston Haynes - Titan Line Music

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Chandler, Arizona

    Re: Anyone using Vista already?

    The memory footprint on Vista in 32-bit mode is pretty bad from my testing at work. It was using 380 MB before loading any applications and this was with 'best performance' setting! The same XP build running the same apps takes about 260 MB so Vista is using about 120 MB more than XP. I was running the Vista version of McAfee and Office 2007 on this machine which probably account for more memory.


  9. #9

    Re: Anyone using Vista already?

    The extra memory usage is likely due to SuperFetch, which pre-caches a lot of frequently used binaries. See here -

    There is a way to disable it and make it behave like Windows XP, which on a DAW will be the most likely scenario as you wouldn't want it caching dlls for IE and notepad, wasting precious RAM which could be used to load samples.

    I believe setting the following registry value to 0 and rebooting turns this off -
    HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Contro l\Session Manager\Memory Management\PrefetchParameters\EnableSuperfetch

    EDIT: SuperFetch seems to also be running as an NT Service. Possibly disabling that will make the registry setting irrelevant.

    Also, the new sidebar and SearchIndexer.exe seem to be using a lot of RAM - both can be disabled. Seems like there is more to shut down now than with old XP, but once it is done you'll probably be able to make it nearly as lean as XP (hopefully).

    Add "Windows Defender" to this list - anti-spyware which also can be disabled.


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