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Topic: Velocity for Section Strings

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  1. #1
    Senior Member 4209fr's Avatar
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    Velocity for Section Strings

    Hidy-Ho, again, Folks -
    Well, we resolved the instrument range issue, or, at least, found out what can and can't be done about it.

    I just came across a new problem. So maybe I can get some more good help from you guys (gals).

    I hadn't tried this before, but I want to do it on the current 'Classical' piece that I am finishing up. In the course of a lot of works, a few notes are "accented" - a strong "attack", not necessarily a sfz, but that would be the far end of the spectrum. With individual instruments, maximizing the Velocity will give an strong(er) accent to the note's attack. But with Section Strings I tried varying the Note Velocity (and, also with the CC1 value), and I can hear absolutely no difference from the Velocity being 127 or 5 (with a constant CC1 value). Do Section Strings not respond to Velocity, or is there something else going on here? Is there some other way to give a note an 'accent'? (I didn't see anything concerning this in the Strings Master Class article on the Garritan website, either).

    Any help will be appreciated.
    Frank

  2. #2
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    Re: Velocity for Section Strings

    I would suggest that you double with a short Marcato or Spiccato preset, and set that to be highly resposive to velocity, and set its basic level so that it sounds like a natural attack to the main legato preset when played at high velocity, .. that way, you'll hardly hear it at low velocity levels.. the result can be quite realistic.
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  3. #3

    Re: Velocity for Section Strings

    Hmmm... I just tried it with violin I Lush Strings and the notes that had the velocity se a 5 were smoother sounding than the ones that were set at 127 which had a nice strong attack to them. The mod wheel (CC1) was set to 127 and that gave the biggest contrast. With CC1 at lower levels the contrast was less and less obvious. I did this test in Tracktion 2 and set the CC's and velocity by drawing them in the midi editor. I just put in a scale up and down an octave and made the first half with low velocity and the descending octave with a velocity of 127. Than I just altered the mod wheel settings.

    Other than what I just tested, I can't imagine what is giving you the problem, unless you have you have your options in the Kontakt player set to "Use STD. CC#7, CC#10 volume and pan" button turned on. That would change the way GPO functions.

    Wish I could be of more help.
    [Music is the Rhythm, Harmony and Breath of Life]
    "Music is music, and a note's a note" - Louis 'Satchmo' Armstrong

    Rich

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    Senior Member 4209fr's Avatar
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    Re: Velocity for Section Strings

    Vic -
    I don't see a Marcato or Spiccato option in any of the Section Strings. I wish that I did have it. I am using Sus+Short. In looking over the piece, though, I don't see any note that is shorter than an eighth and the tempo is rather slow. So, like Rich said that he tried, I could use the Lush option.

    Rich -
    You might be on to something. I do, normally, have the Option set to use CC7 and 10 for Volume and Pan, so that I can make one volume envelope for all tracks (instruments) - if that is a possibility (having most/all instruments at a similar dynamic level).
    I may switch to Lush strings and take the the CC7/10 option off.
    If you don't mind, will you put the CC7/10 option on and try it, again, and let me know if you get no difference, also. (I am using Sonar 5PE).

    Thanx for the inputs.
    Frank

  5. #5

    Re: Velocity for Section Strings

    Frank, I tried it with the volume CC#7 and pan CC#10 set to on and the effect of the velocity wasn't as good. I believe this setting is for people who don't have mod wheels on there keyboards and need to do dynamic expression with the volume slider on there keyboard.

    Anyway, I think Vic has the right idea about marcato/spiccato to add the attack you are looking for. I don't have time at the moment to check which keyswitches those are but, I believe you will find them in the samples that have KS appended to the instruments name, i.e. Violin I KS.

    Hope this helps.
    [Music is the Rhythm, Harmony and Breath of Life]
    "Music is music, and a note's a note" - Louis 'Satchmo' Armstrong

    Rich

  6. #6
    Senior Member 4209fr's Avatar
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    Re: Velocity for Section Strings

    I hadn't thought about the Marcato, etc., being on the KS settings. I will try that, too.

    I changed to Lush strings with CC7/10 off. I tried to make an 'accent' using Velocity and CC1 combos. In general, there was an effect, but the best I can do is to have it sound like a very short < > rather than a stronger attack at Note On. I moved the CC1 from a couple of ticks before the note to right on top of the note. It just makes the < > shorter.

    Another strange thing that I noticed, when I draw an envelope for CC1, it does not appear on the Piano Roll View. The original setting that I placed there before the first note(s) has always been there. The envelope works; it is just not displayed in the Piano Roll View. The additional CC1 event for the 'accent' attempts did show up on the envelope, though.

    Well, I'll try the Marcato, now.

    Thanx, again.
    Frank

  7. #7
    Senior Member 4209fr's Avatar
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    Re: Velocity for Section Strings

    Hey, I'm sorry, guys, but I can't find anything about Marcato (or Spiccato) on the Kontakt Player or in the Update Info. KS are expanded to variations of Sus+Short, Up-,Downbows, Pizz, Trem, and Trills. I don't see anything about Marcato, there. The closest thing I could find is a MIDI controller (CC16) for "aggressive bow noise for short bows". I'm not sure that will give me what I am looking for since the accents are associated with 'longer' notes.

    So, can you further explain the "Marcato" references?

    Frank

  8. #8
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    Re: Velocity for Section Strings

    The Sus+Short patch has both sustained and a layered marcato (short) sound in the patch. The amount of velocity controls the amount of the marcato layer being played. CC1 controls over volume and timbre. With high attacks you should be hearing the marcato layer even if CC1 is at full. Make sure that CC64 is not on (127) or you won't hear the marcato layer.

    Jim

  9. #9
    Senior Member 4209fr's Avatar
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    Re: Velocity for Section Strings

    Haydn -
    Thanx for your reply. I sort of jumped directly to the Lush patch(es) without trying the CC7/10 Off, with the original Sus+Short patch, first. So I changed back to Sus+Short because I had already programmed the Velocity and CC1. So the CC7/10 Option is OFF.

    I am testing the Violin 1 (Section) track to see what the response to various settings (suggestions) is. That track is set at "piano" (CC1=24) and the Velocity has been set at a constant 64. For the Marcato (accent) note, I boosted the Velocity to 90, then 127. I could hear absolutely no difference between the Marcato note and the notes before and after it.

    Just like with the Lush patch(es), if I boost the CC1 up for the accented note then place another CC1 back to 24 about a 1/16th after (slow tempo), I get a very short, but noticeable < > (the Velocity is constant at 64). This effect is somewhat unacceptable. I would rather not use anything than use it. And, since the Velocity (with Sus+Short) does not seem to be working for me, I guess that I will just have to forego having accented notes for the strings. (Other instruments are not from GPO).



    If someone has an idea why Haydn's suggestion (I guess the way things are supposed to work) is not working for me, please let me know.

    Thanx, again.
    Frank

  10. #10
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    Re: Velocity for Section Strings

    Frank,

    You should definitely hear a big difference in the attack as you go from low velocities to high velocities. Make sure you have CC1 up high enough to hear them - maybe around 100. What different do you hear when you use the sustain pedal for legato mode (CC64)? You should hear almost no attack or none at all with the sustain pedal down (CC64 = 127). You should have attack with sustain pedal off (CC64 = 0).

    What program are you sequencing in? Is it re-assigning velocity to something else?

    Jim

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