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Topic: Sibelius, Finale or Overture with GPO

  1. #1

    Sibelius, Finale or Overture with GPO

    Is Finale currently the king of GPO notation playback due to the recent GPO additions and human playback features? Have they made it easier to enter music in Finale yet?
    "Music is a manifestation of the human spirit similar to a language. If we do not want such things to remain dead treasures, we must do our utmost to make the greatest number of people understand their secrets" -- Zoltan Kodaly

  2. #2

    Re: Sibelius, Finale or Overture with GPO

    Quote Originally Posted by dewdman42
    Is Finale currently the king of GPO notation playback due to the recent GPO additions and human playback features? Have they made it easier to enter music in Finale yet?
    I don't know if Finale is the _easiest_ to enter stuff, but it has made leaps and bounds since I started using it in 1994 in v 2.x ... If you are starting fresh, it's as easy as learning anything else now....

    As for the interpretation, it does a stellar job if you mark your score correctly......

    BTW - the Kodaly quote in your sigline should read "to the UTMOST not UPmost


  3. #3

    Thumbs up Re: Sibelius, Finale or Overture with GPO

    I agree with Jonathan. The "Finale is difficult" myth needs to be "busted". I have used Finale since the beginning (when it WAS tough to learn) in the late 1980s and it has evolved into a very well designed piece of software (not perfect - the evolution continues). Sibelius has provided good competition for Finale and likely had a positive impact on its development in the past few years.

    I own both Sibelius 4 and Finale. The reason: many of my students have bought into the myth (see above) and buy Sibelius to get up and running quickly. Having spent some time with Sibelius 4 I know that it is a very good product and has many nice features (including DYNAMIC parts....Finale should have this too), but IN MY OPINION the end result is absolutely no comparison. If you want a professional piece of software that produces excellent results with a user friendly interface, Finale is it.

    Mac Pro 2X2.8 Ghz Quad-Core Intel Xenon, 10Gb 800 MHz DDR2 FB-DIMM, OS10.6.4, Finale 2011, Digital Performer 7.1, Altiverb 6, Yamaha S90, Built-in audio, GPO, JABB, Garritan Authorized Steinway (Pro), Reason 3, M-Audio Ozone, Giovani, Symphonic Choirs, Kontakt 2, Vienna Symphonic Library. Website:http://www.paulread.ca

  4. #4

    Re: Sibelius, Finale or Overture with GPO

    Finale was my first - and I have to say - it's workflow has almost ruined me forever for other notation programs. Though - I am trying to see what else is out there and giving them each their fare shake.

    Finale is the only notation program that has what is called the SCROLL VIEW. It has a continous scrolling window if your music. so you don't have to worry about pages to break your concentration on stuff. THAT feature has almost ruined me for other programs. Serioulsy - it has totally melded itself into the way my brain approaches a new piece.

    I love Finale's printed output better than any other - Sibelius is a close second. I also love Finale's color scheme for it's graphical elements. Red dynamics, blue bar lines, Green texts, and different colors for voices makes working within Finale much nicer.

    But as far as powerful and CONTROLABLE playback for notation, you won't find a better program than Overture. While Human Plaback is fantastic - you REALLY don't have control of the nuances. If you want that second bassoon's release a teenie weenie bit sooner, you cannot EASILY change that in Finale. But in Overture, you simply look at the MIDI data and DRAW in the modwheel curve, (or whatever CC controls what you want).
    In Finale - at least for the time being, the MIDI tool is about the biggest pain in the you-know-what to work with.

    I am hoping that Overture for Mac is released soon. I hear they will try a scroll view - if so, I might be using it a lot more than I do finale. (It is REALLY slow on my mac - whereas Overture is speedy)

    just my experience folks.

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  5. #5

    Re: Sibelius, Finale or Overture with GPO

    Yes. I actually bought overture4 because of what you mentioned, but I dunno.. I think if Finale has become as quick and easy for entering notes..then I'd rather use Finale. I will probably end up feeding everything into Sonar for production sake anyway, its just while I'm composing I want to look at notes and hear them as good as possible. if the humanized playback does a decent job without any midi tweaking at all...then that seems like best choice...IF Finale truly is easier. I actually own finale 2004, then my composition teacher talked me into Sibelius3. Then people around here talked me into Overture4 (madness). Besides going broke, I am not really expert on any of them and at this point I want to pick one and stick with it, knowing that any serious production will take place in Sonar probably. Give that..you think the Humanized playback in Finale is pretty good enough for composing and quickly hearing it?

    GPO integrates into Finale pretty well now?
    "Music is a manifestation of the human spirit similar to a language. If we do not want such things to remain dead treasures, we must do our utmost to make the greatest number of people understand their secrets" -- Zoltan Kodaly

  6. #6

    Re: Sibelius, Finale or Overture with GPO

    Why don't you take a look (listen?) at Qccowboys recent demos in this forum. They are done entirely with GPO and Human Playback in Finale. This is the best way to get an idea of what Finale can do for you soundwise. As for the ease of entry: there's a (almost) fully functional demo. You can't use GPO with it and you can't save and print (at least, that's the way it used to be).

  7. #7

    Re: Sibelius, Finale or Overture with GPO

    Just a word of caution...

    I have Finale and have used it since 1992, and like several others here I am a power user and I can use Finale effectively because over the years, after MANY calls to tech support and MANY MANY hours of reading the manuals in coffee shops and endlessly messing with it I have learned how to effectively navigate through the program to do what I need it to do. But I would have to disagree with those I see saying that it's *easy to learn* for first-timers. I think you have to be a first-timer to really make that judgement, like someone I recommend the program to a few years ago.

    My friend bought Finale 2004 on my recommendation because he wanted to write his big band charts with it. He had never used a notation program before, so I helped him install it and got him started with the basics. But of course I can't stand over his shoulder and help him with it all the time. He complained to me that it was taking him too much time trying to learn the program, then if couldn't find how to do something in the manual he had trouble getting through to tech support. He told me he found it to be frustrating and hard to use -- I urged patience -- he told me he had a lot of writing to do and wanted to be productive on it *quickly*, not months from now. He stuck with it for about 3 weeks, but he finally gave up and went back to writing his charts out in pencil and using a copy machine, and he hasn't used it since.

    I will say this -- Finale has improved a great since I stared using it in 1992. But it's not easy for beginners. It requires a lot of time and patience to use productively, so if you're not up for that then maybe it's not the right solution for you.

  8. #8

    Re: Sibelius, Finale or Overture with GPO

    I've been using Finale since 1992 also and will echo the same sentiments. Way easier to use now than then. I do kind of miss the little help blurbs from the maunals though. Things like :to get to this dialog box, click x menu then goto y tab and click the advanced button.

    As far as music entry, the breadth of available input options makes virtually every approach a snap.

    I do think that some programs are trying to be too many things to too many people. Finale is an exquisit notation program. I don't need it to fumble along with what it "thinks" my playback file should be. I have a dedicated sequencer that is much more discreet than that and allows me more controll and a faster interface than finale will allow to get a realistic "performance" of a composition. By the same token, my sequencer has a notation module that I won't even bother opening because Finale does such a better job at manipulating the "dots". For me at this point, It is better that I just save a quantized version of the sequencer file and have Finale import the midi file to notation. Then it is a simple matter of cleaning up a few notes here and there, adding the occaisional slur or tie, dynamics, articulations, and layout. (all of which are very easy in scroll view) then excract/print parts.

    I don't need to go in and reprogram accelerandos, ritardandos, crescendos, and the like because on a printed page, all that "dynamic" information is in fact quite static. The impetus here is on the musician reading the part to interpret it corectly and of course for me to understand what the musician would expect to see on the page to correctly produce my intended result. "Human Playback" features won't aid in this.
    Experience what is necessary to build upon self character, for that is Life's most significant learning event.

  9. #9

    Re: Sibelius, Finale or Overture with GPO

    You can download free demos of all of them. I suggest you do your own evaluation using your own criteria.

    I did and chose Overture 4.

    The things that were important to me:
    + fast and accurate note entry using step input with keyboard.
    + controllability of notes on the score with user prograqmmable expressions and articulations.
    + midi editability via graphical piano roll view.

  10. #10

    Re: Sibelius, Finale or Overture with GPO

    I actually found Sibelius a bit more convenient to use than Finale. But they're both pretty dificult to use. I just adapted to Sibelius more, and I do find good results with it. And Sibelius' print-outs, to me, are just top-notch amazing.

    I've heard many wonderful things about Overture though. Might want to consider that as well. But it's a pretty difficult decision (if you haven't made one already )
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