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Topic: Problem with Gigastudio

  1. #1

    Question Problem with Gigastudio

    (sorry for my English) I'd very appreciate your help with Gigastudio.
    For a long time I had a strong feeling that all instruments from Gigastudio just don't sound right somehow. Then I found the problem - when I work with any GIG instrument, all sounds (in recordings or when I release a key of MIDI keyboard) allways fade out in a very unnatural way. This is propably due to simple linear release curve instead of use of logarithmic. I've tried many release time and curve tweakings, but nothing helped at all.

    A few days ago I found some of my very old WAV temporary sound sketches on my harddrive, recorded about seven years ago with an old hardware Akai sampler and some with old version of Gigasampler (1.0 or so). I was totally surprised as they all sound 80 percent better and smoother than anything done now with Gigastudio 2.x. All the sounds decay soo naturally, just absolutely perfectly. The difference is like night and day.

    For curiosity, I've converted some GIG files to SF2 and loaded them into Sound Blaster Live, which I've never used for sampling and I was surprised again. It sounded very good, the decay (release) was very natural, maybe not as perfect as in Akai S1000/Gigasampler 1 recordings, but very good, miles ahead of current Gigastudio 2.x. I've tried to find out something on this topic and it seems it is due to sampler engine's use of linear release of dying away sounds (bad sounding) instead of logarithmic (which sounds natural).

    Otherwise, I am very satisfied with GS and I don't want to swich to another sampler, especially to soundfonts. I hope I am missing something and there is a way to switch to natural sounding release curves in GS. I've also heard many commercial demos of GS libraries which definitely had that natural logarithmic sound decay and sounded great, and not the linear one (for example in VOTA demos), so there must be a way..

    I would be surprised if some very old version of Gigasampler and an old Akai sampler have perfect release curve and newer Gigastudio not. That doesn't make any sense. So I hope I am missing something and I would be very grateful if someone puts light on it. Thanks.

  2. #2

    Re: Problem with Gigastudio

    Really nobody? I thought there are a lot of GS experts out there. It's an extremly important issue to me. It's just very easy question - the right side of the picture says it all: The green linearly falling line is a model of a bad, unpleasant sounding tone cut-off, with linear release, found in Gigastudio. The blue one is a good sounding one, found in hw Akai samplers, hw Soundfont E-mu synths and some very old Gigasampler version. So I have really only one question - how to achieve a good sounding tone cut-offs in Gigastudio, how to achieve logarithmical fading-out of the sounds? I would be really very grateful for any answers. Please..

  3. #3

    Re: Problem with Gigastudio

    I'm sorry to say that I can't help you with GS2 release problem. Have you adjusted the release times in GigaStudio QuickEdit or the Editor or both? It's possible maybe that there is a conflict. One setting over-riding the other?

    There is a free upgrade to GS3 available at Tascam's website.
    Good Luck, RWG@sampleheaven.com

  4. #4

    Smile Re: Problem with Gigastudio

    From GS2 to GS3 for free?

    Where is this? (link)

  5. #5

    Smile Re: Problem with Gigastudio

    Dis, my apologies. Not a hijack attempt.

    I've never used soundfonts with Giga and my GigaSampler setup was put to pasture when GigaStudio came out, so I can't help you. Sorry.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Ojai, California

    Re: Problem with Gigastudio

    It sounds that the problem you describe is happening to all your libraries. You should not have to edit release curves as a general rule.

    If that is the case, I would uninstall GigaStudio and reinstall it. Maybe something got corrupted in your current installation.

    Make sure you do a thorough uninstall. Go to the Nemesys or Tascam website for instructions.

  7. #7

    Re: Problem with Gigastudio

    Thank you all very much for your answers.

    KahalaKid: In GS ver. 2.x there is no quick edit as far as I know, so all edits are made in GSEditor only.

    Le Miz: No problem.

    runamuck: I think the problem is I can't edit release amplitude (and change it from linear to lograithmic curve) in GS and I'd like to. Because the default release amplitude in Gigastudio doesn't sound good and smooth for some reason. And on the contrary with hardware Akai samplers the instrument ends are very nice and smooth, and as I found out even SBlive Soundfont (GIGs converted to SF2) instrument fade-outs are far more smooth than with GS (although not as brilliant as with Akai). I've reinstalled GS several times, tried many versions, all worked OK, I don't think there is any bug or so. Just the dying away of sounds doesn't sound too good, with both shorter or longer release times.

    I've found a very old thread here at NS, where someone is hearing exactly the same thing and he is asking similar question. (But unfortunately no-one had answered him.) I think the problem will be much more clear:


    Thanks again, I'll be grateful for further discussion on this topic.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Steve_Karl's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Pittsburgh, PA 15206 USA

    Re: Problem with Gigastudio

    I use Giga Studio 2 very much and have converted many sound fonts to .gig over the years and have never noticed a problem unless it was with an occasional sound font that didn't convert correctly.
    I may have run across 1 or 2 of those in the past and fixed them manually.

    I have giga piano, giga harp, KH Emerald, Ethno World 3 Complete which all sound great.
    I built up all of Doru Malaia percussion to .gig and have no release problems there.

    Have you installed all of the patches?

  9. #9

    Re: Problem with Gigastudio

    Hi Dis, I am not sure if I got it but do you mean :

    bad vs good?

    Dell Precision T3500 (Xeon W3520, 12GB RAM) / Windows 7 x64 / Sonar 8 / VE Pro / WIVI 2.3 / Kontakt 4 / G-Player 1.2

  10. #10

    Re: Problem with Gigastudio

    Hi Steve_Karl, I think the problem is more subtle, as I describe below.

    Hi Frankie, thanks for the examples. But the answer is no. Your "bad" example sounds like there's no or very small release time. The "good" one has longer release time, but the release amplitude doesn't sound good to me (it is Giga or Kontakt, isn't it?).
    I've made two audio examples - both are the same patch, both with similar (and long) release time. The only difference is in the release curve - one sounds bad, or at least not too smooth, and the other one much better and smoother. In the "good" exapmle, you can hear that the chord connections sound more natural. It's due to different ADSR release curves of both samplers/engines.

    bad x good

    The good one uses a curve like this:

    The bad one, on the contrary, sounds like the curve was improperly inverted or so:

    After a "note off" MIDI message, when the release part of the sound starts, the sound dies away very slowly for a long time, but near the end it begins to die away faster and faster and then cuts off abruptly. It's just opposite to what it should be. The sound atfer "note off" message should start die away quickly and then gradually lose its speed and near the end fade out very very slowly.

    The strange thing is that on my 6-7 years old recordings made with Gigasampler 1.0 on Win95, the release curves are absolutely perfect and all sounds very natural (no matter if the release time is set longer or shorther). But since Gigasampler 1.50 (or Win98 system?) there is something wrong with the release curve, I'm almost sure it sounds like it's inverted (or linear line at best). To tell the truth - any simple music sketch with standard sample instruments with Lexicon MPX-100 in those old GSampler 1.0 recordings sounds 70 percent better than similar now with PCM-90 on Gigastudio. I'm just trying to find out how's this possible..

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