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Topic: A Miroslav Philharmonik demo

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  1. #1

    A Miroslav Philharmonik demo

    Hello, everyone! With the first year of Philharmonik on the market passing by, I decided to post a demo of this plug-in praised by so many and would really appreciate the thoughts of all you other Philharmonik users on this library and module.

    This is a 6-minute suite of a score I recently did for a theater play, originally performed by a real orchestra. I thought the work was done, but then I got an idea of trying to see how the same music would sound like performed by Philharmonik that I just recently purchased for sketching reasons. So I decided to take the original orchestrations, rearrange them, re-orchestrate the original score and to make a mockup by using Philharmonik as a sole resource. And, to make things more complicated and representative of Philharmonik's quality, I decided to do a couple more unusual things:

    First of all, use only one module for the entire suite, recording it figure by figure, and then glueing them together.

    Secondly, use raw samples from the library, i.e. without any sound shaping or tweaking, and with the Attack and Release time in ENV1 being the only parameter changed according to the needs of the patch.

    And, finally, to try doing everything in 24 hours, that is perfoming parts on the keyboard, editing events and everything that follows.

    This was all for pure demonstration reasons, to see how Vitous' samples sound with their default sound settings (i.e. most natural).

    Therefore, I also left out the entire mastering process, patching only Philharmonik's Reverb with its default settings in send mode.

    This was all, again, for pure test reasons, as we all know that Vitous' samples are among the most beautiful ever captured, but needing a lot shaping in order to get exactly want you need. Instead of shaping every single part for every figure, I deliberately used default settings and tried to make it in a hurry, as most mockupers have to.

    So, here is the result.

    I can't wait for your comments and your thoughts on Philharmonik and its library, hoping that this won't turn out to be just a download link, but will grow into a Philharmonik discussion, which I am very intersted in.

    P.S. Please, don't listen to it in lo-fi.

    Thanks in advance!

  2. #2

    Re: A Miroslav Philharmonik demo

    Very nice work with the Philharmonik library. I stopped using the library when every time I modified the cello instrument, it crashed. Maybe I should just leave it alone or use another cello. The samples sound great, and you played them great to a briliant orchestration. The built in reverb worked well to provide spacing. The use of percussion helped mask other sampling note transition limitations, until the 4 minute mark. At this point the limitations were notable but still the good playing and nice orchestration was enjoyable to listen to.

    Maybe it's time to dust off my Philharmonik library.

  3. #3

    Re: A Miroslav Philharmonik demo

    Quote Originally Posted by RickD
    Very nice work with the Philharmonik library. I stopped using the library when every time I modified the cello instrument, it crashed. Maybe I should just leave it alone or use another cello. The samples sound great, and you played them great to a briliant orchestration. The built in reverb worked well to provide spacing. The use of percussion helped mask other sampling note transition limitations, until the 4 minute mark. At this point the limitations were notable but still the good playing and nice orchestration was enjoyable to listen to.

    Maybe it's time to dust off my Philharmonik library.
    Thank you very much for your kind comments, RickD. Yes, the note transitions are, of course, notecable and the percussion kinda came in spontaneously for masking purposes, a trick I often pull when striving for realistic mockups. The give away limitations later are due to the lack of sound shape as well as the short eight-note staccato at the beggining of every bar, a type of rythm I often have problems with when mockuping.

    I have to say that I didn't face problems with cello modification ... And since I didn't hear any reports on a bug concerning cello, maybe it would be wise if you'd write to one of the Philharmonik specialists about the problem. I can send you a contact on PM, if you wish. Thanx again!

  4. #4
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    Re: A Miroslav Philharmonik demo

    This is simply fantastic work The sounds are nice. Did you use the Reverb in Philharmonik? And if so which one. I still have a hard time with it. So I been using plugins,,Very good..Joseph..

  5. #5

    Re: A Miroslav Philharmonik demo

    Quote Originally Posted by mech289
    This is simply fantastic work The sounds are nice. Did you use the Reverb in Philharmonik? And if so which one. I still have a hard time with it. So I been using plugins,,Very good..Joseph..
    Thank you very much for your kind comments, mech289. Yes, I used Philharmonik's Reverb with its default settings, in send mode, that is for all the parts with pre fader. Together with the Attack and Release time, those were the only modifications I made to any of the sounds. This was simple home-made, one-take mockup for pure demostration reasons, to see how far default Philharmonik can go.

  6. #6

    Re: A Miroslav Philharmonik demo

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen McMahan
    Nice work! I enjoyed the piece and the clean warm sound sent me to the MP site - downloaded the demo and demo instruments to try it out.

    I have some MV stuff in .gig and Akai format which I converted over to GigS - but the MP is a lot warmer/comfy than what I have.

    I may have to sell off some stuff in order to get this - but from what I have heard in your demo and the demos on the site - it will probably be worth selling off some gear that rarely gets used.

    The site mentions articulation selection and controls - I am assuming that is what the .stip files (presets/scripts?)are all about - any clue on this? It also mentions that the sounds can be loaded in ST 2 - do you know if that includes the .stip's? There isn't a whole lot of info on the site and thought I would ask someone who has actually used it.

    Thanks for the beautiful demo and for startiong up this thread.
    Thank you for your kind words, Stephen. I'm really happy for discussion on Philharmonik taking place, too.

    Concerning its files; as Miroslav is a smaller library there are not that many articulations as there are in bigger libraries, but Philharmonik's ace in the sleave are some other things, which is one of the reason why the instruments don't have that big of a dynamic sampling range, that is from pp to ff. I think Miroslav wanted to capture the consistency in the overall sounding of the samples and draw most out of a lightweight module for low system consumption, which is why the lib is rather small. That is where the .stip files kick in - they are user preset sound files, like you suggested. They are child sounds and can be modified and organized as much as needed. From what I know, the .stips can too be loaded in ST2, just as all of the sounds in Philharmonik, but because of the updated structure of the audio engine, it has to be SampleTank software released after version 2.5.

    I can tell you from experience that, unlike many other load-and-perform libraries, many instruments here will need a lot of shaping work before they're in their final user preset version, but once that is done you'll have a big library to choose from.

    But, of course, for major scoring assignments and mockups, adn especially complete projects, I would go for combination of big libraries with 24-bit sampling. Miroslav here can nicely blend in it with some beautiful solos, for instance, or instruments with very specific character, like Steinway piano hall, the best piano sample I've ever heard.

    Philharmonik site isn't the best site in the world, not to mention the support team, so I wouldn't go there for much info but rather consult kind and helful IK and SR specialists circling forums. I can give you a contact in PM if you wish.

  7. #7

    Re: A Miroslav Philharmonik demo

    Quote Originally Posted by atmajian

    This was all for pure demonstration reasons, to see how Vitous' samples sound with their default sound settings (i.e. most natural).
    Are you Jeff Atmajian, the orchestrator? If so, we have a mutual friend and as a result, I got Walton's War Time Sketchbook for Father's Day, though I haven't had time to reduce it to 4-staves because of some writing projects I just finished. See: http://professionalorchestration.com/titles/ravel.php

    I just finished doing Part 1 of 2 of an MP review where I tested the IK Multimedia Version of the strings with an arrangement that Robert Farnon did for Frank Sinatra using 7-part vertical harmony in the strings. You can read the review here:
    http://www.~~~~~~~~~~~~.com/reviews/details.php?ID=103

    As I wrote in my review, I think the Miroslav library still holds a lot of promise. The original disks are available from Ilio for $325, and I'd be interested in seeing what would happen if the originals were moved into the GVI from Tascam where you could set a number of mic positions.

    I did notice a difference in quality of sound between the MP and the original, and overall, I think the editing done by Dave Kerzner and company is very strong.

    Obviously, your orchestration is excellent. But as pertains to MP, I didn't like the reverb selections. I don't know what you're sequencing with, but I'm using Logic 7.1.1 and after shutting off the reverb on the MP player, I got really excellent results from Space Designer, and also from running the library through the hardware Lexicon PCM90.
    Peter L. Alexander
    www.professionalorchestration.com
    www.alexanderpublishing.com
    Learn it right the first time.

  8. #8

    Re: A Miroslav Philharmonik demo

    Quote Originally Posted by peter269
    Are you Jeff Atmajian, the orchestrator? If so, we have a mutual friend and as a result, I got Walton's War Time Sketchbook for Father's Day, though I haven't had time to reduce it to 4-staves because of some writing projects I just finished. See: http://professionalorchestration.com/titles/ravel.php

    I just finished doing Part 1 of 2 of an MP review where I tested the IK Multimedia Version of the strings with an arrangement that Robert Farnon did for Frank Sinatra using 7-part vertical harmony in the strings. You can read the review here:
    http://www.~~~~~~~~~~~~.com/reviews/details.php?ID=103

    As I wrote in my review, I think the Miroslav library still holds a lot of promise. The original disks are available from Ilio for $325, and I'd be interested in seeing what would happen if the originals were moved into the GVI from Tascam where you could set a number of mic positions.

    I did notice a difference in quality of sound between the MP and the original, and overall, I think the editing done by Dave Kerzner and company is very strong.

    Obviously, your orchestration is excellent. But as pertains to MP, I didn't like the reverb selections. I don't know what you're sequencing with, but I'm using Logic 7.1.1 and after shutting off the reverb on the MP player, I got really excellent results from Space Designer, and also from running the library through the hardware Lexicon PCM90.
    No, I'm not Jeff Atmajian. But he is definitely my favorite orchestrator. I guess I should have picked a different username, as people think I'm mr. Atmajian more and more often.

    Thank you very much for you kind comment on the orchestration. The reverb used is the default Philharmonik reverb in the effects section, again, for pure demo reasons. I have to say that I like the reverb. Can you please expound on why you don't like it? I'm sequening with Cubase, no notation software for me, I'm a firm believer in playing. In a way, that's the fun in it all for me. Thanks for the Space Designer suggestion, I'll keep it in mind. I just started using orchestral plug-ins lately, so I have a lot to test.

    Concerning the potential of mic positioning, I would be very interested in seeing how that performs, too. Some of the instruments, here in true spatial positioning, move around the hall, depending on the note you play, and instruments in solos is the thing I have most problems with when using samples. So, different mic positions might help a lot. That's why I'm looking forward to testing EWQLSO Platinum, their 24-bit samples with three mic positions.

    Now that I think about it, this is likely the best compliment I've ever been given, someone thinking my work was mr. Atmajian's. Thanks again.

  9. #9

    Re: A Miroslav Philharmonik demo

    Hey! I'm glad you got it working! You can have control over vibrato by controlling the tempo in the stretch synth mode. There is actually a lot of real time control over the samples, and a lot of control in general through changing different parameters of the sound. There are a couple of pretty useful video presentations that Dave Kerzner did refering to things you mentioned, they can be downloaded from IK's site. And I would also try to find a .pdf user manual there, maybe they posted it somewhere to download.

    Also, what I lik especially about Phihharmonik is its harmonics preservation tehnology and harmonics change option which gives you a lot of control over the color and type of the sound of each instrument, and the zone and range mode, which gives you increadible opportunities for computing power preservation, i.e. fewer loaded samples and therefore fewer modules at the same time. You can do increadible things using stretch function, zone and range modes in combination. Try it out and let me know how it's working.

  10. #10

    Re: A Miroslav Philharmonik demo

    This is actually a very underrated library IMO. I bought mine last December (2005) but it sat in my studio practically un-used until a few weeks ago when the Intel Mac version came out. Needless to say, it has sparked a great deal of interest in me now. While it might not respond to as much velocity changes as VSL or EWQLSO, the strings are warm and emotive. You can really hear the playing involved. I'm surprised how good the solo strings sound. And the Sample Tank engine is a delight to work with. Very easy to build one's own multis and combi patches. I haven't even cracked the manual. I didn't like MV when I was using PCs mind you but since I went Mac I have been enjoying what this library has to offer immensely.

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