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Topic: Thousands answers possible

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  1. #1

    Thousands answers possible

    Hi all,

    next february my financial situation gets a new impulse (a saving deposite is paying off).

    At the moment I am working with Mozart Notation and I am very pleased about the ease of inputting notes, editing, hairpin assigments, and a lot of other things..... but it has its limitations. To summarize in a few sentences: when using the score in Sonar (midi import) and for a decent playback according to GPO standards I have to do a lot of work twice.
    1. Mozart only knows velocity as a volume control
    2. Mozart cannot work together with MidiOX/-yoke like situations
    3. Mozart has pedal markings (controls) but not suitable for GPO legato as layed out in several tutorials
    4. Mozart is strictly Midi channel based
    Some of you are working with Sibelius and others have Finale, which has its limitations also when working together with GPO (as I understood).
    But to get faster "raw" working material I am thinking of buying another notation program.

    Which one is suitable for me? And now there are thousands of answers possible. That's why I have this as the subject. Please tell me something about it, why or why not. I don't have friends in "music". Maybe more important: I don't want to spend months and months learning how to use this new program.

    Yes, I already downloaded the demo versions and tried them, but I found out that they aren't the latest versions, at least they refused to work with GPO somehow. So they were useless for me.


    Raymond

  2. #2
    Senior Member rwayland's Avatar
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    Re: Thousands answers possible

    Well, I always find that the demo version does not allow the most important function that I would want to check!

    Sibelius, which I use, will work with GPO Studio, provided you open Studio first. You need not select instruments first, just open it first. Or, there is the Sibelius-GPO version.

    I work opposite your method. I input with Sonar, then export to Sibelius, which works well for me.

    Sibelius and Finale both have ardent advocates, and I suspect it is a matter of preference.

    Richard

  3. #3
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    Re: Thousands answers possible

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond62
    Some of you are working with Sibelius and others have Finale, which has its limitations also when working together with GPO (as I understood).
    But to get faster "raw" working material I am thinking of buying another notation program.

    Which one is suitable for me? And now there are thousands of answers possible. That's why I have this as the subject. Please tell me something about it, why or why not. I don't have friends in "music". Maybe more important: I don't want to spend months and months learning how to use this new program.

    Yes, I already downloaded the demo versions and tried them, but I found out that they aren't the latest versions, at least they refused to work with GPO somehow. So they were useless for me.


    Raymond
    I have both Sibelius 4 and Finale 2007. Both have their postive and negative aspects. Finale has (in my opinion) done better in recent years of integrating Garritan products into the workflow. This may change with Sibelius 5 (whenever that will be...) That said, I still prefer some of the ease-of-use features of Sibelius. I think Finale still has a steeper learning curve. If you are still going to use Sonar to actually do the sequencing, the choice isn't quite as important. If you would like to enter notation, and have it playback with a "human touch," Finale 2007's HP (human playback) integrated with Garritan's sounds is quite impressive. They seem to do it very quickly.

    Bottom line is that either program would be a good choice, and the competition between the two seems to keep the "state of the art" moving forward quite nicely.

    Keith W.

  4. #4
    Senior Member rpearl's Avatar
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    Re: Thousands answers possible

    Sibelius has a crossgrade that allows you to playback with GPO and it observes hairpins, dynamics, etc. It is not a sequencer - and if that is what you need, well that's what you need. Depending on your timeframe, you could wait for Sibelius 5. There is no official release date (they don't even hint at it), but it might be worth waiting for, as each release has had significant changes and improvements. I've used it for 4 years now, and am very pleased with it. There are also many hear that use Finale, and are happy as well. In the end, don't spend too much time worrying about it (analysis paralysis) - either one will be a good choice. To be fair, there is also Overture 4 (I don't think there is a Mac version), but I know much less about that - perhaps others hear can chime in.

    Good luck!

    R. Pearl

  5. #5

    Re: Thousands answers possible

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond62
    Hi all,

    next february my financial situation gets a new impulse (a saving deposite is paying off).

    At the moment I am working with Mozart Notation and I am very pleased about the ease of inputting notes, editing, hairpin assigments, and a lot of other things..... but it has its limitations. To summarize in a few sentences: when using the score in Sonar (midi import) and for a decent playback according to GPO standards I have to do a lot of work twice.
    1. Mozart only knows velocity as a volume control
    2. Mozart cannot work together with MidiOX/-yoke like situations
    3. Mozart has pedal markings (controls) but not suitable for GPO legato as layed out in several tutorials
    4. Mozart is strictly Midi channel based
    Some of you are working with Sibelius and others have Finale, which has its limitations also when working together with GPO (as I understood).
    But to get faster "raw" working material I am thinking of buying another notation program.

    Which one is suitable for me? And now there are thousands of answers possible. That's why I have this as the subject. Please tell me something about it, why or why not. I don't have friends in "music". Maybe more important: I don't want to spend months and months learning how to use this new program.

    Yes, I already downloaded the demo versions and tried them, but I found out that they aren't the latest versions, at least they refused to work with GPO somehow. So they were useless for me.


    Raymond
    Raymond,
    Ik kan aan alle GPO-en VSTi-gebruikers Overture 4 aanbevelen!

    I use both Finale (since 1988) and Overture (since 2004)

    Overture 4 is a full VST host and interfaces well with VST instrument products.
    The MIDI implementation in Finale is not as easy in Finale as it is in Overture 4.
    Finale now responds only to Native Instruments VSTi; Overture 4 can handle ANY VSTi.
    With Overture 4 it is possible to obtain complete control of playback into the smallest detail. Finale has Human Playback, which is good but not as flexible as Overture 4.
    In both programs, making notation play back with expression will require work, but the work is (m.i.) much easier now in Overture 4.

    Right now, I'd say that Overture 4 is ahead of both Finale and Sibelius in terms of MIDI implementation. If I have a project that requires an expressive demo CD of a piece, I use Overture 4. As of now, it combines the best of both worlds: Sequencing and Notation. I use it as a "one-stop composition/arranging environment."

    Have a look at geniesoft.com and download a demo.
    (Er zijn ook een paar leden die graag Nederlands spreken!)

    Jim
    Jim Williams
    Professor of Capitalism
    N9EJR
    Indianapolis Brass Choir
    All Your Bass Sus&Short Are Belong to Us.

  6. #6

    Re: Thousands answers possible

    Richard, Keith and R.Pearl thank you for the replies.

    I have Sonar, but the problem is the notation program Mozart.
    I prefer working from a notation program to Sonar and not from Sonar to output this to a notation program.

    I cannot tell you why, but I think that I have to review my workflow, it is all going too slow.... and I have to do things sometimes twice and more..... just to get a "raw" setup for further fine tuning.....

    I will read reviews and search for any Finale/Sibelius user around my home address.

    Raymond

  7. #7

    Re: Thousands answers possible

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince of Music
    Ravel's Pavane
    Off to War

    BTW do you have Sonar 6? I just upgraded and they have a vintage processor in there now that is just GREAT and worth the upgrade price alone. Hope this helps. Tom
    Both links needed some passwords, domains, etc........ didn't work.
    But thanks. And I don't have Sonar 6, yet.

    Today I will search for demo's of Finale, etc.... to get the latest.

    Raymond

  8. #8

    Re: Thousands answers possible

    Quote Originally Posted by snorlax
    Raymond,
    Ik kan aan alle GPO-en VSTi-gebruikers Overture 4 aanbevelen!
    I use both Finale (since 1988) and Overture (since 2004)
    Have a look at geniesoft.com and download a demo.
    (Er zijn ook een paar leden die graag Nederlands spreken!)

    Jim
    Hèhè, eindelijk iemand die mijn taal kent. Finally, a bloke who speaks my language. Thank you for the answer, I'll have a look at the demo (not yet downloaded, but soon).

    To all of you, I'll keep you posted.

    Raymond

  9. #9

    Re: Thousands answers possible

    Quote Originally Posted by snorlax
    Raymond,
    Ik kan aan alle GPO-en VSTi-gebruikers Overture 4 aanbevelen!


    Have a look at geniesoft.com and download a demo.
    (Er zijn ook een paar leden die graag Nederlands spreken!)

    Jim
    This is one I will look into too. Thanks Jim.

    Raymond, I have used Sibelius for a few years now. In combination with GPO it works but it the midi editing possabilities in Overture are much better. I still use Overture 3 that came with an earlier copy of GPO. Right now I'm thinking about a crossgrade to Ouverture or Upgrading to Sibelius 4.

    (Ik ontdek steeds meer Nederlandstaligen in dit Forum)

    Good luck with your choice

    Gerard

  10. #10

    Re: Thousands answers possible

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince of Music
    Sorry about that. I had the FTP link instead of the http one. It's fixed now so go back and the links should now work (I edited the other post).

    One other thing with Finale and HP is that if you put in more markings than you would usually use (in particular articulation markings) you can even get a better playback.Tom
    Thank you Tom. It worked fine now. I listened to the second piece and thought it was great. The Pavane is great by itself. I studied this piece (piano version) and it gave me much pleasure. It was so complicated to play it right, but at the end of several weeks I dared to perform it in public.... it still is one of my favourites[I love Ravel].

    I am not sure about the notation program yet.... more investigation is needed and more looking around for users in my country where I can have a peak of how it works in real life.....

    Raymond

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