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Topic: Problems with falls & kisses

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  1. #1

    Problems with falls & kisses

    I'm new to JABB (the groub buy). I was working on a trumpet section last night and noticed that often (not always) when I place a fall or kiss on a note, all the notes in the entire track start responding to that CC15.

    All editing is done by hand in the PV window of Sonar 5PE starting with a basic midi line. I'm forced to close the song and re-open it to get the CC15 to respond properly.

    I start with an value of "0" prior to the note followed with a value of "33-64" (or "96-127") followed by a value of "0" again. The ending "0" value is placed beyond the end of the falloff sample.

    What am I doing wrong? I'm also using PB, MW, CC12, CC18, Aftertouch & CC17, and CC26 & 27. I also have CC64, value 0, at the beginning of the track. I have applied the update patch. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

    Paul
    AMD Athlon 64X2 4400+ 2.2GHz
    XP Pro 2GB Ram
    80GB OS, 160GB Audio, 320GB Samples
    Delta 66 Omni Sonar 5PE GPO, JABB

  2. #2

    Re: Problems with falls & kisses

    So......apparently no one has been visiting the JABB forum? It did it again last night, guys. Any ideas?

    AMD Athlon 64X2 4400+ 2.2GHz
    XP Pro 2GB Ram
    80GB OS, 160GB Audio, 320GB Samples
    Delta 66 Omni Sonar 5PE GPO, JABB

  3. #3

    Re: Problems with falls & kisses

    Your procedure, as described in your post, looks OK. I've done almost all of the JABB demo material in Sonar and have never encountered this issue so I'm at a loss to make any useful suggestions without more information. Perhaps you could post a Sonar file example and I could check it on my system. If you would rather contact me privately - use the private messaging system here at Northernsounds.

    Tom

  4. #4
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    Re: Problems with falls & kisses

    It looks okay to me, too. I'm wondering if playback is being stopped and then it has the wrong sound. This would mean the controllers are not searching back in Sonar or that the controller needs to be set at the beginning of the piece.

    Jim

  5. #5

    Re: Problems with falls & kisses

    Holy Cow! Two moderators! I'm not worthy, I'm not worthy... Thanks for the responses, guys.

    Your procedure, as described in your post, looks OK. I've done almost all of the JABB demo material in Sonar and have never encountered this issue so I'm at a loss to make any useful suggestions without more information. Perhaps you could post a Sonar file example and I could check it on my system. If you would rather contact me privately - use the private messaging system here at Northernsounds. Tom
    Tom, I'm working on it tonight and if it does it again, I'd be glad to send a file for you examination.

    Becaues I'm working in the PRV and move back and forth quickly as I edit, I thought I might be throwing some ramdom controller messages up that are confusing JABB. Maybe I stopped playback before the falloff sample had finished playing.

    There aren't any random CC's showing up in the PRV but once it starts, every note in the track is a falloff (or Kiss) sample. The 'zero' values have no effect.

    It looks okay to me, too. I'm wondering if playback is being stopped and then it has the wrong sound. This would mean the controllers are not searching back in Sonar or that the controller needs to be set at the beginning of the piece. Jim
    That might be it, Jim. Although I thought I had all the controllers values set to zero at the beginning of the track. I'll double check that.

    Thanks again for your replies.

    Paul
    AMD Athlon 64X2 4400+ 2.2GHz
    XP Pro 2GB Ram
    80GB OS, 160GB Audio, 320GB Samples
    Delta 66 Omni Sonar 5PE GPO, JABB

  6. #6

    Re: Problems with falls & kisses

    One other thought based on Jim's comment: In Sonar Options, Project Options - do you have the controller searchback checked?

    Tom

  7. #7

    Re: Problems with falls & kisses

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Hopkins
    One other thought based on Jim's comment: In Sonar Options, Project Options - do you have the controller searchback checked?

    Tom
    Thanks, Tom. I think so but I'll double check. I didn't get to work on trumpet tracks last night. I had bought Scarbee J Fingered bass and was trying to get it to work in VSampler. Not so much! Really needs the scripting. Oh well...

    Paul
    AMD Athlon 64X2 4400+ 2.2GHz
    XP Pro 2GB Ram
    80GB OS, 160GB Audio, 320GB Samples
    Delta 66 Omni Sonar 5PE GPO, JABB

  8. #8

    Re: Problems with falls & kisses

    I'm having the same problem. Also with Sonar 5.01 PE. Any cc15 controller insertions make entire track ( in proper octave) play back doit or fall-off,etc... And yes I have zero controllers on stop "unchecked". This seems the only way to not have my volume zeroed everytime I stop playback. Which brings me to my other question. Is there a way to completely disable the "mod wheel" volume control? I've gone in and selected use standard pan & volume in the options menu and JABB responds to my fader movements. But I'd like to use midi cc 7 and not the mod wheel. I've tried inserting a cc1 of 100 at the beginning of the track but then I have to uncheck the "zero controllers" box, causing other problems (as above). JABB (and PO which I also have) are great programs but, at least for the way I work, not intuitive. Any help you guys can give will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

  9. #9

    Re: Problems with falls & kisses

    Quote Originally Posted by yorolpal
    Which brings me to my other question. Is there a way to completely disable the "mod wheel" volume control?
    No - unless you have the full version of Kontakt and reprogram the library accordingly.
    I've gone in and selected use standard pan & volume in the options menu and JABB responds to my fader movements. But I'd like to use midi cc 7 and not the mod wheel.
    cc7 is not analogous in standard MIDI to cc1 in GPO and JABB. The (approximately) analogous controller in standard MIDI would be cc11. In standard MIDI cc7 is intended as a static volume control for adjusting relative levels between instruments. cc11 is intended to control expressive volume changes within a track. In GPO and JABB, mod wheel controls both volume and dynamic changes in timbre -linked together, where appropriate. It's important to note that cc11 is not used in the Kontakt player. Neither cc11 in standard MIDI nor mod wheel in GPO and JABB are intended as "set and forget" controls. Mod wheel data should be almost constantly changing in your tracks with the ebb and flow of the phrases. Think of it as controlling how hard a wind player is blowing into the instrument or how hard a string player is drawing the bow across the strings. This is what will help you bring your parts "alive" - continuous volume/timbre shaping.

    When cc7 is activated in the Options menu the static volume of each instrument can be automated in your tracks (usually a single piece of cc7 data at the beginning of each track) rather than using the volume knob on the player to set the level. Expressive volume/timbre changes, on the other hand, should always be handled by mod wheel data. It is possible to intercept an alternate controller's data stream (breath control or expression pedal) and transform the incoming data to cc1 before it reaches the player but mod wheel data remains what the player needs to receive for continuous expressive volume/timbre changes throughout the track.
    I've tried inserting a cc1 of 100 at the beginning of the track but then I have to uncheck the "zero controllers" box, causing other problems (as above).
    If you have continuous cc1 data in your tracks (as it is designed to be used) then you will not encounter this problem because there will always be cc1 data as a reference at any given point in the music.
    JABB (and PO which I also have) are great programs but, at least for the way I work, not intuitive.
    GPO and JABB depart from standard MIDI in a number of ways and must be taken on their own terms if one is to get the benefit of the increased expressive potential of the design approach. They can be used in other ways but the best results will always be achieved when they are used in a manner consistent with the design goals.

    Tom

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