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Topic: Help me getting started with JABB!

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  1. #1

    Help me getting started with JABB!

    Hey all..

    I just got JABB and I'm itching to get started! Naturally I've already encountered my first barriers and I hope that you'll help me out!

    My main problem is this: What's the deal with all those monophonic articulations? In Kontakt 2 every single articulation, except keys, guitars and drums, are monophonic? Does this mean, in order to create a brass-section, that I have to load a separate instrument for each "player" in the section? If so, how do I control volume, expression etc. for each section? If for example I have 3 trumpets and 3 trombones and I want to control volume for the 3 trumpets without affecting the trombones?

    Sorry for asking stupid questions, but I just want to be sure that I get it right from the beginning!

    Thanks in advance,

    Tom..

  2. #2
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    Re: Help me getting started with JABB!

    Brass instruments are monophonic so for best results its best to build brass sections from the individual instruments. There are polyphonic patches though in the lite instruments. Make sure you have the latest updates for the lite instruments.

    Jim

  3. #3

    Re: Help me getting started with JABB!

    Jim,

    Thanks for the tip!

    Tom..

  4. #4

    Re: Help me getting started with JABB!

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Regin
    Hey all..

    I just got JABB and I'm itching to get started! Naturally I've already encountered my first barriers and I hope that you'll help me out!

    My main problem is this: What's the deal with all those monophonic articulations? In Kontakt 2 every single articulation, except keys, guitars and drums, are monophonic? Does this mean, in order to create a brass-section, that I have to load a separate instrument for each "player" in the section? If so, how do I control volume, expression etc. for each section? If for example I have 3 trumpets and 3 trombones and I want to control volume for the 3 trumpets without affecting the trombones?

    Sorry for asking stupid questions, but I just want to be sure that I get it right from the beginning!

    Thanks in advance,

    Tom..
    Hi Tom. What Jim said. What sequencer are you using? If you'll look in the manual starting on page 18, it will describe the process of controlling an instrument in JABB. It can be a little daunting at first.

    I use Sonar 5PE and pretty much edit my tracks from scratch (no realtime playing). Once the midi notes are in I begin editing in the PRV (piano roll view). By placing all the controllers with a value of '0' at the beginning of each track, the controlers are already available to me for editing. One track per instrument.

    I start by adjusting the velocity of each note to acheive the attack I want. I then apply the Mod Wheel (cc1) to get an experssion/volume that's close. (I will use volume envelopes to fine tune this later). The next step is to add subtle pitch changes throughout. I find that brass sounds better this way even in conjuction with using CC22 (Var 1-intonation) and CC23 (Var 2-timbre).

    Then I insert the other CC's to get the sound I want. CC18 for flutter/growl, Aftertouch & CC17 for vibrato, CC12 for air flow, CC13 for valve noise. I also use CC's 64, 15 & 16 to change samples. (CC15 value 33-64 for falloffs etc.). I vary all these controllers form track to track. It gives each instrument it's own charactor.

    Adjust CC26 and 27 for tone. I do this per track although it can be used on a note or group of notes for effect.

    There is a reference chart here somewhere that someone made up. It puts all the controllers and their functions at your fingertips. Very nicely done. I'll try and find a link and post it. Someone here might know where it is as well.

    I hope this helps a little. I just got JABB myself and am loving it. I've had GPO for a couple of years and so I kind of know my way around a little. I recommend going though some of the tutorials here. I spent time studying the midi files and it really opened my eyes as to how these instruments work.

    HTH

    Paul

    BTW, if you already know this stuff, kindly disregard it. There are experts here who can give you more/better help.
    AMD Athlon 64X2 4400+ 2.2GHz
    XP Pro 2GB Ram
    80GB OS, 160GB Audio, 320GB Samples
    Delta 66 Omni Sonar 5PE GPO, JABB

  5. #5

    Re: Help me getting started with JABB!

    Hey Paul,

    Thank you very much for taking the time to write this great tutorial on how to get started!

    I'm not a "newbie" per se - I've been using a competitor's products for many years and I also own a copy of GPO. However, I have spent the past years trying to compose classical music and JABB seems to enforce a whole new approach to scoring/producing. Whereas I'm used to combine string/horn/woodwind sections with instruments that are already sampled as a group (like 18 violins, 10 cellos, 3 flutes etc.) I now have to start "forming" my own sections from individually sampled monophonic instruments which seems a bit tricky. Suppose I wanted to let the trumpets play 2 different notes at the same time, I'd actually have to load the same instrument twice on two separate channels? That seems a bit tedious, although I'd probably get more control of the output in the end.

    I'm using Sonar as well (Sonar 6 PE) and I realize that I have to study the different CC's for JABB before I even start to create music. There are so many options for altering the sounds! It would be really nice if you could find that reference chart.

    Thank you very much again for taking the time to get me started. I'll see if I can find some of those MIDI-tutorials on the forum!

    All the best,

    Tom..

  6. #6

    Re: Help me getting started with JABB!

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Regin
    Suppose I wanted to let the trumpets play 2 different notes at the same time, I'd actually have to load the same instrument twice on two separate channels?
    I would strongly recommend that you load different instruments, rather than the same instrument. Most of the time you will get better results combining a variety of tone qualities to form your section. That's one of the reasons JABB was designed with each instrument having a different tone quality. Think in terms of individual players. Write the way you would write for individual players because sections are built of individual players, each one different from the others. Each one plays a separate part, each one sits in a specific location, some players are dominant - some are supporting, etc. Make editing and mixing decisions with these things in mind.

    It also depends on how far you want to take your mockup. If you just want to hear the notes as a reference while writing you will only need to put in minimal controller data and it really doesn't matter if you use a single lite instrument polyphonically. If, on the other hand, you want to go for greater realism in the final mix then you will need to apply generous amounts of controller data to different instruments in a knowledgeable way. Each player should get unique data so that no two parts are exactly alike.

    You may want to eventually examine the Sonar or MIDI data for the JABB demos for detailed insight on advanced uses of JABB. They are posted here: http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/...ad.php?t=45965

    Tom

  7. #7

    Re: Help me getting started with JABB!

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Regin
    Hey Paul,

    Thank you very much for taking the time to write this great tutorial on how to get started!

    I'm not a "newbie" per se -
    Thank you and I'm sorry. I certainly didn't mean to imply that you were a noobie. I get so much from reading this (and other) forums, I jump at the chance to give something back where I can. I guess I got a little over zealous.
    I've been using a competitor's products for many years and I also own a copy of GPO. However, I have spent the past years trying to compose classical music and JABB seems to enforce a whole new approach to scoring/producing. Whereas I'm used to combine string/horn/woodwind sections with instruments that are already sampled as a group (like 18 violins, 10 cellos, 3 flutes etc.) I now have to start "forming" my own sections from individually sampled monophonic instruments which seems a bit tricky. Suppose I wanted to let the trumpets play 2 different notes at the same time, I'd actually have to load the same instrument twice on two separate channels? That seems a bit tedious, although I'd probably get more control of the output in the end.
    If you don't mind, which competitors product? It seams to me that using sections would be limiting although much faster. Building a section one instrument at a time, while time consumming does allow you to give each player a character all his own. With a "pre made" section, wouldn't it sound the same all the time.
    I'm using Sonar as well (Sonar 6 PE) and I realize that I have to study the different CC's for JABB before I even start to create music. There are so many options for altering the sounds! It would be really nice if you could find that reference chart.

    Thank you very much again for taking the time to get me started. I'll see if I can find some of those MIDI-tutorials on the forum!

    All the best,

    Tom..
    Here's the link to the reference charts http://www.mycranium.com/host_media/gpo_cc.htm

    Paul
    AMD Athlon 64X2 4400+ 2.2GHz
    XP Pro 2GB Ram
    80GB OS, 160GB Audio, 320GB Samples
    Delta 66 Omni Sonar 5PE GPO, JABB

  8. #8

    Re: Help me getting started with JABB!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Hopkins
    I would strongly recommend that you load different instruments, rather than the same instrument. Most of the time you will get better results combining a variety of tone qualities to form your section. That's one of the reasons JABB was designed with each instrument having a different tone quality. Think in terms of individual players. Write the way you would write for individual players because sections are built of individual players, each one different from the others. Each one plays a separate part, each one sits in a specific location, some players are dominant - some are supporting, etc. Make editing and mixing decisions with these things in mind.

    It also depends on how far you want to take your mockup. If you just want to hear the notes as a reference while writing you will only need to put in minimal controller data and it really doesn't matter if you use a single lite instrument polyphonically. If, on the other hand, you want to go for greater realism in the final mix then you will need to apply generous amounts of controller data to different instruments in a knowledgeable way. Each player should get unique data so that no two parts are exactly alike.

    You may want to eventually examine the Sonar or MIDI data for the JABB demos for detailed insight on advanced uses of JABB. They are posted here: http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/...ad.php?t=45965

    Tom
    Tom,

    Great advice! Thank you very much!

    I had a look at the Sonar-files and they look very impressive. Unfortunately my Sonar crashes everytime I try to load the samples, but nonetheless they give a nice overview on how to work with the different instruments. And especially the controllers.

    Thanks for your help,

    Tom.

  9. #9

    Re: Help me getting started with JABB!

    Quote Originally Posted by P R G
    Thank you and I'm sorry. I certainly didn't mean to imply that you were a noobie. I get so much from reading this (and other) forums, I jump at the chance to give something back where I can. I guess I got a little over zealous.
    If you don't mind, which competitors product? It seams to me that using sections would be limiting although much faster. Building a section one instrument at a time, while time consumming does allow you to give each player a character all his own. With a "pre made" section, wouldn't it sound the same all the time. Here's the link to the reference charts http://www.mycranium.com/host_media/gpo_cc.htm

    Paul
    Paul,

    Don't be sorry. I do the same thing all the time!

    I have been working with EWQLSO Silver + Gold, QL StormDrum and RA for a long time. Their sampled sections sound wonderful (at least in my ears). You may be right that working with predefined sections is limiting in the long run, but I like the fact that it's quick and easy to get my ideas out without thinking too much about configuration etc.

    Thanks for the controller charts! Looks like good bedtime reading!

    /Tom.

  10. #10

    Re: Help me getting started with JABB!

    Hello Paul,
    I am also totally new to GPO and JABB. Maybe you can help me.

    quote: "Then I insert the other CC's to get the sound I want. CC18 for flutter/growl, Aftertouch & CC17 for vibrato, "

    I can not obtain a vibrato for trumpet. I selected "after touch" in both GPO and JABB and got the vibrato with just that. (no CC#17) CC#17 had no effect on the speed at all. Then the next day I was unable to obtain vibrato at all. How do you "insert" aftertouch and CC17 into score?. I guess I am asking a dumb question, but for one of my pieces the trumpet vibrato (other than natural vibrato) is necessary. I am really lost. Thanks for any info or advice.

    Cheers,
    Harborman (Fred)

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