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Topic: How to map Foot Controller = Expression on a KX88

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  1. #1

    How to map Foot Controller = Expression on a KX88

    Hi,

    Just got the STRAD V2 to go with my GPO and JABB libraries. Have used electronic keyboards successfully for years with just the sustain and soft pedals. I went out and bought an 'expression pedal' (EX-P) to use specifically with the STRAD. But when I hooked it up to my main controller – an old tried and true Yamaha XP88 – I see that it defaults to controlling volume. Obviously, not what I had in mind.

    I've searched the KX88 manual and think I understand how to change what each switch/controller controls, but the problem is that it doesn't list anything like 'expression' as a possibility in its listings of controller codes to set. To further complicate matters, its numbers don't coincide with what I've seen discussed here. For example, CC07 should normally be the code for volume, right? Well, the KX88 manual lists '17' for volume! Another: CC11 is what I see all of you talking about when you talk of expression; while in the KX88 manual, '11' is mapped to 'mod wheel', and there is no 'expression' possibility listed! It's confusing as all get out.

    Can anybody here clue me in on how I would get the Foot Controller I purchased to control 'expression' on the KX88? I surely would appreciate it.

    Many thanks.

    Studio V

    (If necessary, I'll be glad to copy the KX88 list of 'controller codes' and post it if it would help.)

  2. #2
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    Re: How to map Foot Controller = Expression on a KX88

    I only vaguely remember the KX88, but judging from what you write about the documentation, there is some wrong info there!
    "Expression" is indeed CC#11, and "Modulation" is CC#01.
    If it says that "Volume" is CC#17", then it seems to be adding 10 to everything! (because of course "Volume" is indeed CC#07).

    Have you actually tried setting the pedal to CC#11?

    (Yes, please post the codes.. it would be interesting to see!)
    Cubase 5.1 | Cubase 4.5.2 | Digital Performer 7.0 | Mac OSX 10.5.8 || Mac "MDD" dual 1GB | 1.75GB RAM | MOTU PCI-424/2408mk3 | MOTU MidiTimepice AV

  3. #3

    Re: How to map Foot Controller = Expression on a KX88

    Quote Originally Posted by vic_france
    I only vaguely remember the KX88, but judging from what you write about the documentation, there is some wrong info there! "Expression" is indeed CC#11, and "Modulation" is CC#01. If it says that "Volume" is CC#17", then it seems to be adding 10 to everything! (because of course "Volume" is indeed CC#07). Have you actually tried setting the pedal to CC#11? (Yes, please post the codes.. it would be interesting to see!)
    Thanks for your quick response. Yes, the pedal is set to 11, but as I said it's controlling Mod Wheel. FWIW, the +10 thought occurred to me as well, but it doesn't seem to hold true because I now see their code numbers apparently are in hex notation.

    Anyway, after I scanned the KX88 controller code table in to a .jpg file (from their manual), I see now that I am prevented from posting any attachments here. So I'll just type it out: (As you can see, no mention of 'expression' at all. Hope it can be done somehow.)

    No Function
    00 Single
    01 Dual
    02 Split/S. Point
    03 Swap Channel
    04 Midi Ch
    05 Transpose
    06 ---
    07 Load
    08 A Oct Up
    09 B Oct Up
    0A A Oct Dwn
    0B B Oct Dwn
    0C Ch Inc 1
    0D Ch Dec 1
    0E Ch Inc 2
    0F Ch Dec 2
    10 Pitch Bend
    11 Mod Wheel
    12 Breath Ctrl
    13 After Touch
    14 Foot Ctrl
    15 Porta Time
    16 Data Entry
    17 Volume
    18 Sustain on/off
    19 Sustain on
    1A Sustain off
    1B Porta on/off
    1C Porta on
    1D Porta off
    1E ---
    1F ---
    20 Sosten on/off
    21 Sosten on
    22 Sosten off
    23 Soft on/off
    24 Soft on
    25 Soft off
    26 Increment
    27 Decrement
    28 Local on
    29 Local off
    2A Omni on
    2B Omni off
    2C Mono 1
    2D Mono 2
    2E Poly
    2F ---
    30 Song Select
    31 Midi Clock
    32 Start
    33 Continue
    34 Stop
    35 ---
    36 Tune Request
    37 System Reset
    38 Master Tune
    39 Duall Mode Detune
    3A LFO Speed
    3B LFO Delay Time
    3C Pitch Mod Depth
    3D Amp Mod Depth
    3E Universal 1
    3F Universal 2
    --- (end of KX88 table)

    Bob
    Studio V

  4. #4
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    Re: How to map Foot Controller = Expression on a KX88

    Ah, O.K. they were not referring to controller numbers, but to their own arbitrary list!
    So, as you said, Expression is not part of that list, so you'll have to take one of the existing controllers ("Volume" is a good candidate in this case) and convert it into CC#11 via the computer..
    Are you using the Strad as Standalone or as a plugin in your Host (if so, which host?)
    If you are using Standalone, on PC you can convert this with MIDIOX, or if on Mac, there is MIDIPipe.
    You can use those also if you are using the Strad as a virtual instrument in a host sequencer, although the host may well also provide its own controller converter. Post back if you need more info
    Cubase 5.1 | Cubase 4.5.2 | Digital Performer 7.0 | Mac OSX 10.5.8 || Mac "MDD" dual 1GB | 1.75GB RAM | MOTU PCI-424/2408mk3 | MOTU MidiTimepice AV

  5. #5

    Re: How to map Foot Controller = Expression on a KX88

    Going around the block with this myself. Using KX88 and the Kontakt standalone player and midipipe. I've yet to come across "expression."
    I have two foot controllers ("expression pedals"). I can assign volume, modulation, portamento, etc., but no "expression".

    CC11 is so far a myth.

  6. #6
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    Re: How to map Foot Controller = Expression on a KX88

    Hello dhurst,
    Set one of the pedals of your KX88 to "Volume".. it will send out CC#7.
    In MIDIPipe, convert CC#7 to CC#11.
    Cubase 5.1 | Cubase 4.5.2 | Digital Performer 7.0 | Mac OSX 10.5.8 || Mac "MDD" dual 1GB | 1.75GB RAM | MOTU PCI-424/2408mk3 | MOTU MidiTimepice AV

  7. #7

    Re: How to map Foot Controller = Expression on a KX88

    Vic,
    Just to let you know: I finally decided to use my Kurzweil PC88 keyboard as controller, especially for the Strad. Heretofore, the KX88 has served me exceptionally well in my studio. (Never had any reason to output 'expression,' lo, these many years.) I've had the luxury of keeping the Kurzweil packed in its case for use on gigs only. But rather than mess around with MidiOx or MapleMidi to alter the output from the KX88 (not really having had any experience with either of those applications), I figure it's a lot easier in the long run to just physically unpack the PC88, set it up for studio use with the Strad when I need it, and then repack it for gigs. By the way, the expression pedal works great now that it's outputting the correct CC11 info stream.
    Thanks for your interest and trying to help.
    Bob
    Studio V

  8. #8
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    Re: How to map Foot Controller = Expression on a KX88

    Quote Originally Posted by Studio V
    .. I figure it's a lot easier in the long run to just physically unpack the PC88, set it up for studio use with the Strad when I need it, and then repack it for gigs.
    You make me realize I must be a lot older than you! (how much does the PC88 weigh?)
    Glad you found a solution anyways
    Cubase 5.1 | Cubase 4.5.2 | Digital Performer 7.0 | Mac OSX 10.5.8 || Mac "MDD" dual 1GB | 1.75GB RAM | MOTU PCI-424/2408mk3 | MOTU MidiTimepice AV

  9. #9

    Re: How to map Foot Controller = Expression on a KX88

    Set one of the pedals of your KX88 to "Volume".. it will send out CC#7.
    In MIDIPipe, convert CC#7 to CC#11.
    Thanks for your comment Vic_france. I've tried remapping various CC#'s to CC#11 (using MidiPipe). No dice.

    I see StudioZ's is using a Kurzweil PC88 and that's doing the trick. I have a Kurzweil SP88. Perhaps it will work?

    Why is this CC#11 business such a bugger for so many folks?

  10. #10
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    Re: How to map Foot Controller = Expression on a KX88

    dhurst,
    How are you routing everything?
    First launch MIDIPipe, and set it up as follows...
    MIDI In (the MIDI Input that is receiving your KX88)
    Message Converter (Control Change 007>Control Change 011)
    MIDI Out (MIDIPipe Output 1)

    Launch Kontakt Player 2.
    Goto the Setup Menu>"Audio / MIDi Setup" at the top of the screen. Click the MIDI widget, and scroll down to the bottom of "Input Interface", where you should now see "MIDIPipe Output 1" available. Switch it on. It will now be available as a MIDI Input to the Kontakt Player (probably as Port D)
    (I've just tried this myself, so I know it works )
    Cubase 5.1 | Cubase 4.5.2 | Digital Performer 7.0 | Mac OSX 10.5.8 || Mac "MDD" dual 1GB | 1.75GB RAM | MOTU PCI-424/2408mk3 | MOTU MidiTimepice AV

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