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Topic: Drum rolls and trumpet wahs.

  1. #1

    Drum rolls and trumpet wahs.

    This is really two questions.

    First: I want to do a snare drum roll, slow crescendo over three bars. I've done a search through JABB and can't find a snare roll anywhere. I tried writing lots of separate snare hits and it doesn't sound good without the cresc, awful with it. Luckily I have GPO also, so for the time being I've stolen a snare roll from there. But that's a kludge. Is there a roll hidden somewhere in JABB that I haven't found?

    Second: I also have a trumpet note held over a bar and a half which I want to do a slow OOOWAAAH on. I've tried the plunger mute trumpet, with cc16 ramping slowly from 0 to 127, but I don't get the effect I expected. It's more like a cresc than a slowly opening plunger. Then I tried doing a cross-fade between an open trumpet and one with a mute (bucket or cup) and this didn't work too well either. So ... how do you get those good ol' Ellington "jungle" sounds?
    Canberra, Australia

  2. #2

    Re: Drum rolls and trumpet wahs.

    Hi, Martin--I'm here to encourage you to try something on your first topic, the drum roll.

    I've used GPO's snare roll maybe a couple of times, but my usual procedure for doing rolls on any percussion instrument--done it the most with snare and Tympani--is to Play it first. Inserting notes just doesn't cut it as well.

    First play the two notes assigned to the sound, as fast as you can. Sure it'll be kind of sloppy--that's a Good thing. But it'll probably be too few notes. Fine--select that section and with a "Length" tool (I'm using Sonar--hopefuly this option is available to you)--and change the start times to between 50 and 75% of their original start times. This will shorten the section. Need more? Cut and paste--delete extra.

    Using a Piano View, now draw an IMPErfect velocity slope--It usually works best to start the first few hits fairly loud, then immediatley dip down and swoop the velocities up to full 127 on the last section of your roll. Make sure you keep jiggling the mouse so that no two velocities are exactly the same next to each other--you'll have a forest of uneven velocity trees which as a group still keep climbing up, increasing the volume values.

    Trial and error--I can almost guarantee you'll come up with very convincing rolls this way. I do.


  3. #3

    Re: Drum rolls and trumpet wahs.

    Don't know if this would solve your problem with the trumpet, but if you have Kontakt 2, there is a way to add a controlable EQ, via CC. What you could do is emulate a the sound you want via an EQ shift, drawn in by CC. If I have time when I get home, and see that you havent found a soultion, Ill show you how it's done.

    ~Sam Ferrara~

  4. #4

    Re: Drum rolls and trumpet wahs.

    Hi rbowser.

    Thanks for your ideas. I'll give them a try.

    I found, with my first attempt, that there was a sudden quite marked change in the sound of the snare about half-way through the cresc. I think that the library must contain samples of the snare recorded at different dynamic levels, and I am hearing a transition from one to the other. If that persists, I might have to try a cross-fade.

    I'm using DP5 as my sequencer, so I can do the various edits you suggest without too much trouble.

    I'm going to be interested to see if I can get away from the "fast rat-tat-tat" sound I got with individual notes to what I think of as a real roll sound. On the plus side, doing things this way would give much more control over the subtleties of the roll, for instance sometimes I'd really like that rat-tat-tat sound for what I think is called a "press roll" (I know the sound I mean, but I'm not a drummer!).

    I'm one of those people who do nearly everything on the screen, hardly using the keyboard at all. So I had some automatic randomisation of the velocities of the individual hits, which may (perhaps) have the same "sloppiness" effect as working from the keyboard. It was set at +/- 5, which may not be enough.

    (PS. But isn't the lack of a roll a bit strange? Jazz drummers do use rolls.)


    Hi FireGS (Fire? Sam? How do you like to be addressed?)

    Yes, I'll give that a try too. I don't have Kontakt 2, but I am using DP5, so I can put a controllable filter on the trumpet using that. The technique of controlling the filter is pretty straightforward, but I expect it's going to take quite a bit of experimentation to get the right sounds.

    I feel a bit as though I'm going to be reinventing the wheel -- according to the manual, this is exactly the technique used to create the plunger trumpet in the library in the first place. They must have been after a sound very different from what I have in mind.

    Lots of room for experiment here, so thanks again to both of you.
    Canberra, Australia

  5. #5

    Re: Drum rolls and trumpet wahs.

    Well, a press roll is played much closer to the drum head than other rolls. What about reducing the velocity and slightly lengthening the notes. I don't know what program you're using, but some sequencers/notation programs default to 90% of note length. What about lengthening that a bit - maybe 95% with the idea that the notes would blend in together a bit as they do with a real press roll.

    All theoretical - I haven't tried this.

  6. #6

    Re: Drum rolls and trumpet wahs.

    I have had really good luck with drawing in rolls. 32nd note triplets usually do a good job and they compliment tempo. You don't necessarily want a buzzy little press roll on a song that is largamente or slower. Draw in the velocities as described earlier. Paying attention to the notes that fall on beats if you want some hits during the roll, you can spike these velocities and they will stand out in a very jazzy sound if you use syncopated spikes.
    Experience what is necessary to build upon self character, for that is Life's most significant learning event.

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