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Topic: JABB polyphony not possible with trumpets

  1. #1

    JABB polyphony not possible with trumpets

    A friend of mine uses the Personal Orchestra and can play a chord using a trumpet sound but I can't do this with my JABB. Is this possible and if so, would I do this in a different way to accomplish this? Thanks for your help. This is my first time being in a forum. Malcolm Hines

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Chandler, Arizona

    Re: JABB polyphony not possible with trumpets

    The normal instruments are monophonic because of the extended programming used in JABB. Try the Lite versions.


  3. #3

    Re: JABB polyphony not possible with trumpets

    Hi, Malcom

    I just got through posting a reply to a similar question.--I encourage you to Not find ways to play chords with the Trumpets or other instruments in JABB.

    As Haydn said, the Lite versions are polyphonic--but the whole point of JABB is the ability to achieve natural results. The instruments are monophonic like real instruments. While you can play chords like a pianist would with the Lite versions, or with the ensemble players in GPO--the results are far less satisfactory than if you mount your ensemble pieces one instrument at a time.

    --EDIT: I came back to say that your friend is getting Far less satisfactory results with his GPO than he could be. Playing a chord with one of the Trumpet ensemble player causes phasing, and all the notes have the same sonic quality. If those chords would be built from three different instruments, the way GPO was designed, your friend would have Much more realistic results.
    I suppose you may be wanting to play the programs live, and that would have different demands of course. But for recording, I really hope you try to use JABB as its designed. The superior results you'll get from playing each instrument as a soloist will be very rewarding.

    Last edited by rbowser-; 01-16-2007 at 11:00 AM. Reason: One more thing to addd

  4. #4

    Re: JABB polyphony not possible with trumpets

    I realize that I am resurrecting an almost year old thread, but this was precisely the reason I was digging through the support forum. I completely understand the rationale for wanting different instruments on different channels, and I agree with it.

    That being said, I still wish that it was possible for a very specific (and selfish?) reason. As an arranger, I almost always write single note lines for all of my parts. The rare exception tends to be writing the occasional split part, mostly a divisi trumpet note in the first part to cap off an impact. I understand that the sound library is intended for many different applications, not just that of those who run it through notation, and the addition of the lite libraries are a fantastic addition to the cause. Still, I think that would be an alternative view as to why some people are looking for it and wondering why it is not working even when the notation version of the normal patch says that it should be outputing polyphony.

    Not at all a criticism, just an alternative viewpoint.

  5. #5

    Re: JABB polyphony not possible with trumpets

    Ghost of threads past! Wow - a full year ago. I just looked through this again, and remember writing my reply - sure doesn't seem That long ago.

    trimpe, I understand what you're saying, but I'm not sure you're understanding that the realistically modeled instruments in JABB would lose much of their quality if they were used polyphonically like standard synth brass patches.

    All you need to do is have different Saxes or Trumpets, or whatever, on each of your tracks - they can be playing the same single melody line like you're talking about. Play the same notes in new tracks, or copy them-- just be sure to "mess up" their data a little, so you have some humanized touches to the start times and durations, vibrato rates etc - You'll very quickly get the brass sections which you want, and they'll sound Much better than the keyboard approach of playing a single chord and expecting one patch to sound great.

    Maybe the old synth approach is all you want, but the whole philosophy behind the Garritan libraries is to provide top-notch samples at a reasonable price. If you ask them to do the kind of thing you're talking about, it's a step back - it would make them less realistic, which is contrary to the philosophy in their design.

    Randy B.

  6. #6

    Re: JABB polyphony not possible with trumpets

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser-
    trimpe, I understand what you're saying, but I'm not sure you're understanding that the realistically modeled instruments in JABB would lose much of their quality if they were used polyphonically like standard synth brass patches.
    Actually, I think we are in agreement here. I understand why they are the way that they are, and I agree with it from the standpoint of creating the best possible sounds. I'm just trying to offer a reason why it would be confusing for those new to the sound libraries. There will be a number of people that are going to be firing up JABB for the first time (especially after the massive success of the Go-Round) and wonder why it is not behaving like they would otherwise expect, especially when there is a notation set. Possibly a year from now, somebody is going to wonder the same thing that I did and come across this thread. Who knows.

    For my needs, I can get away with using the lite patch on a couple of select instruments, those I know that I personally will occasionally write a short divisi part in. And when I know I wont, I switch it back to the standard. Again, I completely am on board with one sound per channel, etc. I'm just offering a reason why this might be confusing in hopes that the next person that performs thread necromancy sees it and understands what is going on.

  7. #7

    Re: JABB polyphony not possible with trumpets

    I don't know how it is usually done for Jazz Band charts, but for orchestral scores, like trimpe said, there is often more than one instrument per line. You would have trumpet 1 and trumpet 2 sharing a line, for example. I also agree that from a sonic standpoint it is best to use individual instruments, which is why usually nowadays I render my piece in a sequencer, but in notation programs, you would often have more than one instrument per line. So if you use the standard instruments, you can only have one play at a time on a stave, and if you use the lite versions or the notation versions you can write parts like that for the score. That would be one reason why, as trimpe said, people might be trying to have polyphony set up that way.

    Personally, my templates for jazz writing use one instrument per line anyway, so it doesn't matter.

    One reason I might use polyphony higher than one is if I am just playing around with the part on the keyboard and I want to "hear" more than one part simultaneously, but then I lose the slur feature, so it all has trade-offs.

    Hope this helps for everyone,


  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Perth, Western Australia

    Re: JABB polyphony not possible with trumpets


    Multiple instruments sharing a single line of music in a score does not preclude ensemble building while using notation software (specifically Finale).

    I generally have two scores. One is for printing and editing. The other, generated from my principal score, is for playback. This second score is generated using linked/extracted parts and combining those parts into one large score (in Finale 2008 this is really easy to do with the new merge plugin)


    A score has a single line for 1st and second trumpets. In the principal score, I define 2 trumpet parts, Trumpet one uses the top note in a measure with chords and all notes in measures with single notes. Trumpet two uses the bottom note in a measure with chords and all notes in a measure with single notes. This is all done in the manage parts dialogue.

    The same thing goes for all instruments that share a single staff.

    When I'm done editing the score, I then extract the parts into individual files, then generate a new score by using the merge score plugin. After that, it is merely a task of assigning midi channels and loading the instruments into Kontakt then playing the score.


    Daz :0)

  9. #9

    Re: JABB polyphony not possible with trumpets

    Yes, but it still doesn't sound quite as realistic as when you load it up in a sequencer and massage it that way. That takes a lot more time though, and some people don't need it to sound totally realistic. Then too, I think Finale's human playback system does a better job playing back scores than Sibelius does, which is what I use, but personally I prefer to get the playback sound decent in sibelius then do the tweaking in the sequencer, because you have that much more control over it. Either way works, depending on the needs of the piece.


  10. #10

    Re: JABB polyphony not possible with trumpets

    Not sure this is relevant to your previous posts, but in Finale 2008 I use different layers on the same staff to write different parts (e.g., one Trumpet staff with Layer1=Trumpet1, Layer2=Trumpet2, Layer3=Trumpet3). I assign each layer to a different MIDI channel, so that they are separate.

    I can even (if I choose) write different dynamic markings (e.g., ff for Trumpet1, mf for Trumpet2, etc.; or crescendo for Trumpet1 and decrescendo for Trumpet2, etc.) and assign the expressions to the correct MIDI channel so that everything not only looks right on paper, but sounds like I want it to.

    This way, I can use a single score for editing/playback. When I save the file as MIDI and import it into my sequencer, each instrument shows up as a separate track (because they are on separate channels), even though they are on the same staff in Finale.
    Best Regards,

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