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Topic: SONAR USERS - please help me

  1. #1

    Question SONAR USERS - please help me

    Hi Everyone
    I'm trying to figure out how to get the Fader Automation to work in Sonar 4 PE. I can arm it for automation etc., and I hear that it changes the track, but it doesn't stick around even after recording it. What am I doing wrong? Any suggestions would be very much appreciated!!
    Take Care,

  2. #2

    Re: SONAR USERS - please help me

    Ah, easy. OK, so you've armed your fader for automation (don't forget you can arm pan, effects sends etc also)--You can tell it's armed because it now has a red border.

    Once you really have at least one thing in the COnsole armed that way, then--answer to your question--up in the transport bar, you need to push the button for---Recording automation! It's to the right of the regular record button. Push that--Then make your moves while the piece plays.

    Don't like what you recorded? If most of it is good and you just need to refine it, then go to Track View and look at the resulting envelope you just made--call it up to view if you need to. Thousands of little nodes to tweak if you were late on a fade etc.

    Go forth and automate!


  3. #3

    Re: SONAR USERS - please help me

    Thanks so much!! I'll go give it a try.

  4. #4

    Re: SONAR USERS - please help me

    well...this isn't quite working out...my record automation button is grayed out, and I have it activated in the transport menu. I'm so confused... I've been reading through the manual, and it isn't helping...
    Last edited by Stephanie Pray; 02-07-2007 at 09:29 PM. Reason: typo

  5. #5

    Re: SONAR USERS - please help me

    Hello again, Steph---Well, this is disappointing. What am I forgetting to tell you?---

    You have audio tracks, or the VSTi tracks for GPO, other soft synths--you've right clicked directly on the faders, and chosen the "arm for automation" option. Now you can start play from the transport, and Then the "record automation" button, or you can push it first--either way.

    Well, in the upper right corner of the Console View, I have two buttons which offer the options of including automation in a playback, or ignoring it. I've always left that on--I don't know if the option is turned off if it effects the Recording of automation as well?

    Something isn't translating in these posts, there must be something you're missing in your description, or which I'm missing--possibly both of us. So frustrating. If I was peering over your shoulder as you worked, I'd be able to pinpoint the issue, I'm sure. Automation is a basic and rather essential element to using Sonar.

    OK--You do realize that using envelopes in the Track View yield the same results? You could forego recording automation for now, and only use the envelopes--in fact, many Sonar users prefer using envelopes only.

    Tip for you on envelopes. Before you ask to create a volume envelope, make sure the relative volumes are where you want in the Console View--your starting volumes. Because when you ask to create the envelopes in Track View, they will appear at where you've already set the faders. From there, you can start adding nodes to bring tracks up or down as needed throughout the mix.

    The draw back is that you don't have immediate feedback on what you're doing--You have to work on a small section, play it back and edit more if needed. AUtomating the faders is of course done in real time. But like I said in my first reply, you'll still need to fine tune the automation moves in the Track View.

    I wish I knew what else to tell you--It seems like what you described should be getting things working for you. Hummm.

    WAIT HOLD THE PHONE--I just looked at your new post some more. You said:

    "...my record automation button is grayed out, and I have it activated in the transport menu..."

    The "record automation" button can't be activated in the transport bar (not menu actually--the bar)--unless you've already chosen to arm the automation somewhere in the Console.

    That button can't be both greyed out and activated--so--, which is it?

    You really need to be Positive that you've really armed a fader, or pan, or Something for automation. It's outlined in Red when you've done that.

    Whew--I should edit this reply--But I want you to sweat through it the way I did!

    --DO let us know if you get it working. Somewhere in this mass of words Might be your answers, I have high hopes.

    Last edited by rbowser-; 02-08-2007 at 01:28 AM. Reason: Information correction

  6. #6

    Re: SONAR USERS - please help me

    Why don't both of you go to www.crossloop.com and download the free utility.

    Then, Steph, you phone Randy and give him your security code (see program) and he can then control your computer remotely.


  7. #7

    Question Re: SONAR USERS - please help me

    I'm a complete Sonar junkie (PE), but have actually never used the fader automation. This may not appeal to you at all, and I'm sure you would still want to know what's going on, but just in case you haven't tried it this way...

    I instead use envelopes an each track, hand-drawn for the most part. I prefer the visual aspect, and I'm not graceful enough to input the data real-time. What does fader automation bring to the table that I'm missing?
    - Jamie Kowalski

    All Hands Music - Kowalski on the web
    The Ear Is Always Correct - Writings on composition

  8. #8

    Re: SONAR USERS - please help me

    --!!--That "Crossloop" looks like a Very Interesting program, Poolman! You learn something every day. At the Crossloop site, under the FAQs, there's mention of other similar utilities--but I had no idea this kind of thing was possible on home computers.

    For now, I'm not going to take that Crossloop plunge though. This computer I use for emailing and general interneting is a bit creaky, and prone to old age problems, so I don't want to put any more strain on it. My computer for music is kept Strictly offline. There may be a bit of superstition in my hesitancy, but for now--I'm saving the Crossloop site for future reference though.

    I hope we hear again how you're doing with this, Steph.

    In the meantime, Skysaw, you said you've never used automation and wondered if there were advantages.

    I covered that in my earlier reply, but I'm sure it was just too dense with verbage for you to see that I covered using envelopes also.

    BRIEFLY for Skysaw--Using a combination of Console Automation and Envelopes works especially well for me, for these reasons--and understand that automation creates envelopes which are visible in the Track VIew, exactly the same as your hand-drawn ones:

    --Automating fader moves is done in Real Time, and more intuitive to use. Your piece is playing back and you're adjusting the mix as you listen.

    --Whole sections of your envelopes can instantly be re-written with automation, without having to move each individual node by hand.

    --Envelopes drawn by hand must of course be done without benefit of playback. BUT fine tuning of the automated moves combines the best of both worlds--Minute adjustments can be made on the envelope nodes created by the automation.

    --I use hand made envelopes extensively for catching the momentary volume changes that are too subtle to catch with automating a fader. A quick dip on a note that was recorded too loudly for instance--that can best be drawn in by hand.

    --Automating bus group faders can really smooth out a mix. Once I've done all the detail work with a combination of automation and envelope drawing, my sub-mixes (ie: woodwinds now grouped together in one bus) can be balanced against each other so I'm constantly keeping the over-all balance of a piece under control. To Hear how the sub-mixes are interacting gives me a more organic feel to this, one of the final steps in mixing.

    --Automating the Master bus is the icing on the cake. From ppp to fff, the dynamics of the entire recording can be fine tuned in Real Time in a way one just can't manage when only drawing envelopes.

    --Automating EQ is something I haven't done, but take a look at Tom Hopkins' extensive use of automated EQ in his JABB demos--He did things that would simply have been impossible with hand drawn envelopes.

    And so forth. Basically, I HIghly recommend a combination of the two mixing methods. ANd don't forget that with either method, you can control panning, amount of reverb, many plugin effect parameters--etc.


  9. #9
    Senior Member Steve_Karl's Avatar
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    May 2004
    Pittsburgh, PA 15206 USA

    Re: SONAR USERS - please help me

    Quote Originally Posted by moviemaestro
    well...this isn't quite working out...my record automation button is grayed out, and I have it activated in the transport menu. I'm so confused... I've been reading through the manual, and it isn't helping...
    Possibly what you're missing?
    Someting needs to be "Armed" before the record automation button becomes active.

    I use 4.0.2 and have done this countless times with no problems other than the first time ... figuring it out.

  10. #10

    Re: SONAR USERS - please help me

    Thanks for joining in on this, Steve

    Steph said she has a fader armed for automation, and so much has been covered on this on this thread, but it's good to go back to square one, to see if she does indeed have something armed.

    And you're right, it's that first time with ANy of this stuff that can be annoying perplexing, then afterwards, it all becomes routine and oh so simple.


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