THE DISCOURSE OF STARS - Symphony Orchestra (Sosnowski)

[Leaf]

"Though in a number of areas it leans into polytonality and polymodal tendencies, tonal centers are always evident."

Hey, that's the same thing i was going to say!

I have to also say WOW! I'm with those who would love to hear this live from one of the top orchestras. It would surely bring the house down. Hopefully bring the house down means what i think it does and means bring the house down in good way. And those trumpets toward the the end, double wow!

Thanks for posting your amazing works, so inspirational.

David

[joaz]

David..........a technical question......if I may.

How different is your rendering score, from your beautifully produced reading score.

Clearly, we dont see any Keyswitches, but do you use a lot of hairpins, and accent markings to achieve extra expression, or do you add mod-wheel data live or mouse it in in some excruciating fashion.

I ask because your renderings have become very expressive, but when I tried to do this sort of thing in Sibelius, each bar was full of hairpins that never quite expressed what I wanted, so I just gave up trying to produce a finished sound in Notation.

I imagine that it is quite common, to have a score for rendering and a score for viewing.

How different are they.??

C'mon.........I know you love technical questions.

regards Joe

[DelCarry]

[QUOTE=etLux]I'll take a "Wow" any day... lol. Thanks, Trent; sometimes
one-word reviews are the best ones.

I think I need to correct a misimpression, though. I never
said I don't worry about the rendering... quite the contrary,
I spend hours and hours and hours at it.

Now, I do this in notation, but in many regards it is no
different from what others do in a sequencer... getting
relative levels just right; working dynamics properly; handling
tempo with care; nuancing the articulations just so; paying
close attention to phrasing; and, in general, constantly aiming
at introducing the elements of a real, live performance.

What I have said, though, is that there are no tricks, no
secret techniques. What it all comes down to is... just
what you see in my scores -- care and attention to detail...
which is exactly what you should see in any score.

The final step, applying sound treatment -- ever my
Achilles Heel -- I also labor over for still more hours...
I'm lousy at it, no talent for it, plus my hearing is not all
that great -- but I get in there and slug it out as best
I can.

Trent, thank you so much for touching on this. It's given
me the chance to make it very plain that, just like every
other soul in this forum, for me there is no "magic act".
It doesn't just... happen:

It's hard work.

Well said! David

Every one composes differently and yes, there is no magic and it's hard work. The length of this thread alone certainly testifies to your huge efforts. Unfortunately, many people out there (not so much in this forum of course) still think you just press a few buttons on the computer and voila! I get that all the time in my graphic design business. Because someone can use a computer does not make them a good designer any more than a computer makes us a good composer. And, I can also understand why some people think that way. Mostly ignorance I'm afriad. Of course the computer and software gives us great tools to work with but that is it.

Del

[etLux]

Every one composes differently and yes, there is no magic and it's hard
work ... Unfortunately, many people out there (not so much in this forum
of course) still think you just press a few buttons on the computer and voila!

I get that all the time in my graphic design business. Because someone can
use a computer does not make them a good designer any more than a
computer makes us a good composer...

You've given me an opportunity to make a point or two, here,
Del, thanks!

Owning a hammer doesn't turn you into a carpenter. And being
able to put notes on a page doesn't make you a composer.

But assuming you get at least that far: With what we do here,
there are the quite enormous additional elements of also being
conductor and performer and sound engineer.

You've got to have the sensitivity, skill, and understanding of
the music and of performance requirements that composers
have always sloughed off onto the conductor -- "Let the guy
with the baton figure out what I meant." Hah! But you can't.
It's... you.

You've got to have the knowledge and skill and understanding
of dozens of instrumentalists, their weaknesses and strengths,
and how to play with them and around them. Composers have
traditionally given that short shrift -- "Let the player figure
out how to make that crappy line sound decent." But you can't.
It's... you.

And you've got to understand how to deal with levels and balance
and ensemble and space so that all the myriad parts are heard
with clarity and presence. Composers rarely think about any of
that -- "Let the magician in the soundbooth fix my muddy, sloppy,
ridiculous orchestration with electronic voodoo." But you can't.
It's... you.

All this, to me, is what makes what people do here so incredibly
amazing!

My best,


David
www.DavidSosnowski.com




Related Pieces:

The Emergence of Time
The Realization of Light
.

[rbowser-]

--David!---By looking through the long list of replies on this thread, I realized that I indeed haven't posted a response--My bad, because I listened some time ago, listened again this morning and:

--after the wonderful and sometimes even erudite discussion on this thread, please allow me to just say--

I l o v e t h i s
!

Randy
(rbowser)

[etLux]

David..........a technical question......if I may.

How different is your rendering score, from your beautifully produced reading score.

Lol... et tu, Josephus? Thanks for the kind word on the score, Joe.

There is no difference. Plug that into Finale, and it's exactly what
was used for rendering.

There's generally a few days' delay between rendering and posting
and when I publish the score, while I clean up notational short-
comings -- fixing clefs, interferences, note groupings, general page
layout, that sort of thing.

Clearly, we dont see any Keyswitches,

Mark-up like pizz., arco, ord., and so on are interpreted as key
switches -- so, yes, they're there.

but do you use a lot of hairpins, and accent markings to achieve extra expression,

Only what you see in the score. Nothing hidden.

or do you add mod-wheel data live

No. I do not own or use a keyboard of any kind, or anything with a mod
wheel on it. My coordination and motor control aren't quite up to it.

or mouse it in in some excruciating fashion.

No. I wouldn't know how. I also don't own sequencing software of any
kind.

I ask because your renderings have become very expressive,

This could be a wild shot in the dark, but there's the off-chance the
writing and scoring might have something to do with that... rofl.

but when I tried to do this sort of thing in Sibelius, each bar was full of hairpins that never quite expressed what I wanted, so I just gave up trying to produce a finished sound in Notation.

I recently received a copy of Sibelius, but I don't know nearly enough
about using it to say anything helpful, yet, Joe; sorry.

I imagine that it is quite common, to have a score for rendering and a score for viewing.

I used to do that; but I don't anymore. It seemed like cheating.

How different are they.??

The reading score is neater; but other than that they're identical.

C'mon.........I know you love technical questions.

Sure do love technical questions. I'd like even more to know some
of the answers to them... lol.

Joe, so much if it comes down simply to detailing. If you look over
that score, you'll see a tremendous amount of mark-up -- far more
than is typical of traditional scores. While I think a composer should
be this detailed in any score... in notation software, it's absolutely
crucial. You've got to very specifically "say" in the score exactly how
you want everything to be done.

All my best,



David
www.DavidSosnowski.com




Related Pieces:

The Emergence of Time
The Realization of Light
.

[GrahamKeitch]

[QUOTE=etLux]
Mark-up like pizz., arco, ord., and so on are interpreted as key
switches -- so, yes, they're there.

Only what you see in the score. Nothing hidden.

No. I do not own or use a keyboard of any kind, or anything with a mod
wheel on it. My coordination and motor control aren't quite up to it.

No. I wouldn't know how. I also don't own sequencing software of any
kind.

This could be a wild shot in the dark, but there's the off-chance the
writing and scoring might have something to do with that... rofl.

I recently received a copy of Sibelius, but I don't know nearly enough
about using it to say anything helpful, yet, Joe; sorry.

I used to do that; but I don't anymore. It seemed like cheating.

The reading score is neater; but other than that they're identical.

Sure do love technical questions. I'd like even more to know some
of the answers to them... lol.

Joe, so much if it comes down simply to detailing. If you look over
that score, you'll see a tremendous amount of mark-up -- far more
than is typical of traditional scores. While I think a composer should
be this detailed in any score... in notation software, it's absolutely
crucial. You've got to very specifically "say" in the score exactly how
you want everything to be done.QUOTE]


I'm glad Joe asked that one David as I was wondering the same. May I ask for a little insight into your use (or otherwise) of Human Playback please. This is an incredible feature - but much of my use of it is the result of meddling around and pure luck! I'm not really sure what I'm doing half the time!

Regards, Graham

[joaz]

This could be a wild shot in the dark, but there's the off-chance the
writing and scoring might have something to do with that... rofl.

David
www.DavidSosnowski.com

Related Pieces:

The Emergence of Time
The Realization of Light
.

Thanks David for that thoughtful reply.

As for your contention, that the writing and scoring, may have some impact on this issue.
Well you may have a point.

I am aware of the solipsistic labyrinth of tweakery.
It can all too easily become a case of
......." My note choices ???........Never mind my note choices.....feel the quality of my CC curves....gasp in amazement at the intricate off-beat velocities of my hi-hat part........." etc, etc.

Note to self..............dont forget to write something worth tweaking.

regards Joe

[etLux]

"Though in a number of areas it leans into polytonality and polymodal tendencies, tonal centers are always evident."

Hey, that's the same thing i was going to say!

I have to also say WOW! I'm with those who would love to hear this live from one of the top orchestras. It would surely bring the house down. Hopefully bring the house down means what i think it does and means bring the house down in good way. And those trumpets toward the the end, double wow!

Thanks for posting your amazing works, so inspirational.

David

Hi David! Thank you for the enthusiastic review, my friend.
I don't know about bringing down the house; but hey, I bet
I get that trumpet player on his knees... rofl!

Gosh, sorry for all the jargon -- it does sound pretentious.
You know, I wonder if phrases like that even say anything,
really. Talking about music... so often it's like trying to
describe the taste of a fine wine: "The triplets in measure
47 were courteous yet impudent, with a slightly nutty
flavor and a delightful hint of smoked English hickory."

In any event, thank you for the kind words, David!

All my best,


David
www.DavidSosnowski.com




Related Pieces:

The Emergence of Time
The Realization of Light

.

[etLux]

--David!---By looking through the long list of replies on this thread, I realized that I indeed haven't posted a response--My bad, because I listened some time ago, listened again this morning and:

--after the wonderful and sometimes even erudite discussion on this thread, please allow me to just say--

I l o v e t h i s
!

Randy
(rbowser)

That's got to be one of my favorite reviews so far, Randy... lol!
Thank you!

You know, if you listen closely in the scherzo-like section out
near the end, you'll hear a touch of Randy Bowser in there --
not the notes, the attitude -- in the way I was handling some
of the humor... I distinctly recall thinking of some of your stage
music work, there.

Forum:

If you have not heard Randy's work-in-progress for the
musical stage, I do believe he's on his way to creating
a classic... give it a listen:
http://northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52670

All my best,



David
www.DavidSosnowski.com



Related Pieces:

The Emergence of Time
The Realization of Light

.