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View Poll Results: How do you feel about NOTION's use of iLok security?

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21. You may not vote on this poll
  • I like it.

    5 23.81%
  • I hate it.

    15 71.43%
  • I don't care either way.

    1 4.76%
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Topic: iLok: The Debate

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  1. #1

    iLok: The Debate

    Some users like it, some don't, tell us what you think because user feedback is what guides our product development. (We are actually having an internal debate on this within NOTION right now.)

  2. #2

    Re: iLok: The Debate

    And be sure to post explanations of your responses, and let's keep this focused on NOTION in particular. Let us know if you own NOTION and are responding based on experience, or don't own it and are responding based on experience with other products. Either is perfectly valid, we just want a clear idea of how our use of iLok security has been received or perceived.

  3. #3

    Re: iLok: The Debate

    I own and use Notion frequently.

    I like it (for the most part). I like that I can load Notion on more than one computer, and use my USB key to activate whichever computer I am using. That's a big positive.

    I was concerned about hitting and breaking the key--as it sticks out in the front of my computer, but the dongle buddy solved that dilemma.

    All the expanded kits have pretty much loaded just fine. I like that if I break the key or lose the kit chips--I have the licences stored online. I also like that I can manage licenses. Big positive.

    I do not like the iLok costs for Zero Downtime Coverage. It seems a bit of a scam, and I have not opted in. Instead, I will buy it only when I have a USB key problem.

    I understand that Notion needs to ensure its product is secure. In this day of cyber hacking and pirated software, it's just an obvious solution. I don't mind a bit of inconvenience.

  4. #4

    Re: iLok: The Debate

    I like the flexablity of the iLok, but having to pay to run something (if the iLok is damaged) I already legally own is not really my cup of tea. I know the replacements are free, but sometimes time is money, and the $30 bucks for the quick replacement is what I am talking about here.

    I understand software developers have to protect what they devlop and sell, and agree this needs to be the case. This protection also keeps the software cost down for consumers. I would however, like to keep my Notion dealings with Notion within the Notion organization itself (and this is not a reflection on iLok, as I have not had any trouble with my iLok, just a consumer preference).

    Possible ways around this would to allow for temporary codes when the iLok is down, or selling Notion and then charging extra for a new code for each machine with a certain limit of machines (at a low cost hopefully). I for instance, use Notion of my two computers -- lap and desktop. I could see where Notion wouldn't want to give out a ton of codes for one program sale. It always concerns me when I disconnect my iLok. I do so carefully and hope it is not damaged.

  5. #5

    Re: iLok: The Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Windsor
    Some users like it, some don't, tell us what you think because user feedback is what guides our product development. (We are actually having an internal debate on this within NOTION right now.)
    In the past, and until now, I had problems with scores bought from NOTION's Score Library to open on my machines (iMac and MacBook Pro). Libby from Notion Tech Support told me that the problem might have to do with the iLok security/authorization process. In one case (scores bought and downloaded in July 2006) the problem resolved by whatever means – possibly by newer updates of the NOTION software (including the newest one, v1.6). However, for the Nutcracker scores, bought on CD in November 2006, no remedy has been found until now: The scores still can't be opened although we reinstalled the iLok drivers and also ran the Intel Mac sound kit and Mac instrument updaters again.

    All in all, the iLok security/authorization process seems rather intransparent to me.

    Hansen

  6. #6

    Re: iLok: The Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Hansen
    In the past, and until now, I had problems with scores bought from NOTION's Score Library to open on my machines (iMac and MacBook Pro). Libby from Notion Tech Support told me that the problem might have to do with the iLok security/authorization process. In one case (scores bought and downloaded in July 2006) the problem resolved by whatever means – possibly by newer updates of the NOTION software (including the newest one, v1.6). However, for the Nutcracker scores, bought on CD in November 2006, no remedy has been found until now: The scores still can't be opened although we reinstalled the iLok drivers and also ran the Intel Mac sound kit and Mac instrument updaters again.

    All in all, the iLok security/authorization process seems rather intransparent to me.

    Hansen
    Have you pursued the Nutcracker issue further with Libby? If you paid for it, it should work, however we need to make that happen.

  7. #7

    Re: iLok: The Debate

    Jason,

    I honestly don't think anyone would CHOOSE to have ANY kind of key. I've got Cubase and had Pro-tools and any other audio tech form is loaded with people anti-dongle - some to the extent of boycotting the company!

    I am certainly not suggesting that anyone here would go to such an extreme measure, but from a practical point of view, how does any dongle really serve the user at all?

    It just takes up one of your USB ports while the developer feels okay that nobody is stealing their stuff.

    A great piece of wisdom I heard once went along the lines of "those who are going to pay are going to pay you anyway, and those that aren't won't anyway, either."

    I know there is incessent worries about torrent sites and such, but with files as big as what has to be installed with NOTION I'd see the incredible inconvenience as a security measure in itself.

    And if you included a serial # to install it with, and even a "challenge-response" as long as the webserver would have guaranteed up-time...then the only thing those "people who wouldn't buy it anyway" are doing is making it more inconveinent for those of use who ARE going to buy it no matter what.

    Just another input.

  8. #8

    Re: iLok: The Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Windsor
    Have you pursued the Nutcracker issue further with Libby? If you paid for it, it should work, however we need to make that happen.
    You're right, I should pursue the issue further with Libby. (I had little time in the past few months.) Hopefully we'll find a solution (although I'm skeptical – seems to be a fundamental issue, at least on my machines).

    Thanks anyway!

  9. #9

    Re: iLok: The Debate

    Quote Originally Posted by angelic
    Jason,

    I honestly don't think anyone would CHOOSE to have ANY kind of key. I've got Cubase and had Pro-tools and any other audio tech form is loaded with people anti-dongle - some to the extent of boycotting the company!

    I am certainly not suggesting that anyone here would go to such an extreme measure, but from a practical point of view, how does any dongle really serve the user at all?

    It just takes up one of your USB ports while the developer feels okay that nobody is stealing their stuff.

    A great piece of wisdom I heard once went along the lines of "those who are going to pay are going to pay you anyway, and those that aren't won't anyway, either."

    I know there is incessent worries about torrent sites and such, but with files as big as what has to be installed with NOTION I'd see the incredible inconvenience as a security measure in itself.

    And if you included a serial # to install it with, and even a "challenge-response" as long as the webserver would have guaranteed up-time...then the only thing those "people who wouldn't buy it anyway" are doing is making it more inconveinent for those of use who ARE going to buy it no matter what.

    Just another input.
    Well, the main reason we chose it was so a user to install the program on several machines and simply move the key around. This has proven very valuable and popular with many of our users. The trade-off, of course, being the use of a USB space and the expense of breaking one or losing one. We really are debating its merits here, and are trying to come up with alternatives for the future, but the good has outweighed the bad so far for us. The biggest issue for us is PACE (manufacturers of the iLok) itself and their software. It is entirely possible that our security measures may change, especially if this thread proves to be a good cross-section of our users' experiences.

  10. #10

    Re: iLok: The Debate

    I prefer the C&R personally for a few reasons.

    1/ the authorization is offsite. I cannot break it or damage it. If I need to, I can simply re-authorize my system. I recently did this with Miroslav Philharmonik when I re-installed OSX on my iMac.

    2/ As a Macbook user too, I find taking up one port is a bad thing especially if I have an external harddrive and USB keyboard taking up the slots. C&R doesn't take up any space/ports. Also, being a portable musician, I am continually fearful of losing the iLok.

    3/ The iLok key is HUGE! Things like The Korg Digital Legacy Collection come with a much smaller key that is less likely to catch on something and break.

    I understand the need for copy protection but I am not totally enamoured with this particular system. I had some difficulties getting my PC to recognize my expansion kit authorisations. And it's not like the iLok doesn't require the internet anyhow.

    ***************

    The thing I do like about the iLok key is that I can install NOTION on any number of computers without having to go through the rigomoral of de-authorization Computer A so I can use Computer B with NOTION.

    Those are my thoughts on this matter.

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