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Topic: Bluthner from proaudiovault - chameleon?

  1. #1

    Bluthner from proaudiovault - chameleon?

    Proaudiovault has a factory-authorized sample library based on a Bluthner concert grand.

    Like pianoteq, proaudiovault touts the ability to transform the Bluthner into many other instruments, using their proprietary "Timbral Impulse" technology. Links to examples of using this technology and comparisons to other sampled pianos appear at the bottom of their homepage.

  2. #2

    Re: Bluthner from proaudiovault - chameleon?

    FYI I posted some Timbral Impulse demos last night and added these comments to the thread on "TI's a Dramatic and New Sampling Technology"


    Here are a couple of audio examples of Timbral Impulses (TI) technology (in a Kontakt 2 Player).

    With the TI's one can transform the sound of the BDMO (Blüthner Digital Model One) grand piano into a vintage piano or even an upright. I posted some examples of this at the www.proaudiovault.com site.

    In these audio examples the midi that I developed was inspired by Glenn Gould's 1981 recording of the Aria from Bach's Goldberg Variations. The midi file does not have any sustain pedal and there is no reverberation added to the audio. All you hearing is pedal up samples. The dynamic range chosen was 65 - you can choose from 100% down to 45% of the real world piano's dynamic range.

    With the TI's can hear the sound of an 1863 Blüthner Grand, a 1908 Blüthner upright, a 48" upright that was a personal favorite of Henry Mancini. He used this piano on many of this recording session. The last example is a TI that has the midrange properties of this original 1981 recording.

    Ernest Cholakis

  3. #3

    Re: Bluthner from proaudiovault - chameleon?

    Wow! I love the sound of that piano. The upright in particular is gorgeous. Now I really must get myself Kontakt 2.

  4. #4

    Post Re: Bluthner from proaudiovault - chameleon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Harvey
    Wow! I love the sound of that piano. The upright in particular is gorgeous. Now I really must get myself Kontakt 2.
    Not really, because this piano is a VSTi powered by Kontakt Player 2, which is included in the box .

  5. #5

    Re: Bluthner from proaudiovault - chameleon?

    Ah. Thanks for that.

    My eyesight isn't what it used to be. Actually, the same goes for my hairstyle and my dress-sense, but that's a good thing.

  6. #6

    Re: Bluthner from proaudiovault - chameleon?

    Thanks and I really enjoyed the sound of the piano. I'm excited about the wide timbral changes you can make with convolution. The only problem is I'm hearing a strange warbling effect on faster passages, almost like tape flutter. The slow passages don't seem to have this. Does anybody else hear this?
    If it is there it could be from either the mp3 encodes, some sort of crossfading or scripting you're using, or maybe the convolutions are doing funny things on the faster runs.
    Hope this piano does great and any bugs can be worked out.
    Eric Matlock

  7. #7

    Re: Bluthner from proaudiovault - chameleon?


    I think what you are hearing is two elements that may draw attention to your ear first the performance is very intense at key moments (especially the trills) and the dramatic moments in bar 17-20 (3/4 time) there is an underlying constant tension. There are many reasons for this but one is the very slow tempo 31 bpm per quarter note. If you are a pianist then you could appreciate the playing slow is much harder then playing fast.

    This and much more is part of the genius of Glenn Gould. Listen to other recordings - no one sound like Gould. There is to a link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJhs2tSoP5c of Gould playing this aria in the studio - not identical but close to the original recording.

    You can clearly hear how the Blüthner Digital Model One (BDMO) feels so much closer to the piano and of course there is no noise or vocalizations ! With the 72 Reverb Impulses included in the BDMO you can always send it farther back in the sound stage.

    I think that the second reason for what you are hearing is probably that this is the first time you have heard a piano performance this dry. The BDMO has the least amount of ambience short of recording in an anechoic chamber than any other sampled piano in the marketplace. The big advantage of this is that it works exceptionally well with convolution (RI and TI) of impulses. There is obviously no flutter. FYI we used several Pacific Microsonics HDCD A to D Converters (I think that one of these units goes for around $20K)

    There are pictures of the studio/piano and equipment and much more information in the pdf manual which can be downloaded http://www.proaudiovault.com/BDMO_manual_v2.pdf (18.6 megs)


  8. #8

    Re: Bluthner from proaudiovault - chameleon?

    Just out of curiosity: How much harddiscspace does it use and how cpu hungry is the beast (using Kontakt´s convolution engine quite heavily). I´m asking because I would like to use a piano both with my G5 powermac in the studio and with an Intel mac laptop on stage)
    Thanks for the info

  9. #9

    Re: Bluthner from proaudiovault - chameleon?

    The piano is about 4.2 Gig's in size and it works well with convolution on a G5 or a Intel mac laptop. I have tested BDMO on these type of machines and the piano plays perfectly when the TI SI and RI impulses are all active.

    I would not recommend a G4. You can play the piano with the TI's on a G4 but when you also add the large Reverb Impulses and Sustain -you will definelty stress the CPU. You can however get the full potential out of a G4 if you determine which SI and RI you want then bounce the midi file into an audio file - Kontakt Player will render the result perfectly regardless of the CPU speed.

    Dan and I have tested it on a 2.4 and 2.8 P4 and all the features work perfectly.

    The impulses were specially designed to minimize the amount of DSP required and and use less CPU than other K2 libraries - but I would rather not talk about that.


  10. #10

    Re: Bluthner from proaudiovault - chameleon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest
    I think that the second reason for what you are hearing is probably that this is the first time you have heard a piano performance this dry. [/url]
    ok it may be because of the dryness - or the mp3 encoding process - but I too can hear something that sounds a little strange to my ear - it's at 0m32s (and again at 57-59secs) in the first (dry) demo. I'm presuming it's the same thing Eric described because it's on the trills. Funnily enough I'm not hearing it on the later trills, which are not as heavy.

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