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Topic: Do you use Woodwinds Sections?

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  1. #1

    Do you use Woodwinds Sections?

    Just wondering if you use Woodwinds sections or just load a single wind instrument and use it for both (when it's for solo parts and in un unison with another)! thanks

  2. #2

    Re: Do you use Woodwinds Sections?

    Unless very sloppy I always use solo (usually I have flutes play 2 different voices at some parts, os it would end up a little huge to have sections...)

    but for fast unison, sections are not THAT bad...

  3. #3

    Re: Do you use Woodwinds Sections?

    Quote Originally Posted by aLfR3dd
    Just wondering if you use Woodwinds sections or just load a single wind instrument and use it for both (when it's for solo parts and in un unison with another)! thanks
    Just recently I used a combi patch in HALion Symphony Orchestra that sub-divided bassoon, clarinet, oboe and flute along the range of the keyboard. It was kind of fun to play this way as I came up with pointillistic lines. Also, the wind voicing was interesting to do in this manner. Normally I use separate patches though. I wouldn't use layered wind groups though. I don't like that generic sound. I like to do my own arranging of winds when it comes to unison doubling.

  4. #4

    Re: Do you use Woodwinds Sections?

    Quote Originally Posted by davecos
    Just recently I used a combi patch in HALion Symphony Orchestra that sub-divided bassoon, clarinet, oboe and flute along the range of the keyboard. It was kind of fun to play this way as I came up with pointillistic lines. Also, the wind voicing was interesting to do in this manner. Normally I use separate patches though. I wouldn't use layered wind groups though. I don't like that generic sound. I like to do my own arranging of winds when it comes to unison doubling.
    very nice idea to have a divided keyboard for the 2 wind instruments!!!

  5. #5
    Senior Member Steve_Karl's Avatar
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    Re: Do you use Woodwinds Sections?

    I always use solo wwinds.

  6. #6

    Re: Do you use Woodwinds Sections?

    Woodwind sections in unison have a different sound than solos. It's not so much louder as smoother.

    If you're mocking up Mahler or Holst, you will want some sections - sometimes together, and sometimes divisi. If you use woodwinds as a character instrument, you typically want solos.

    With the Westgate sections, I recommend playing in two lines: solo and ensemble together. (If exposed, anyway) The reason is that sampled sections make the note transitions too perfect, so it sounds like one instrument. By layering solo and ensemble with different performances (or, at least, slide the timing a bit) you will then hear multiple players with the ensemble sound.

    Whether or not you want a unison sound depends on your style. They're great for big orchestrations, and not necessarily needed otherwise.

  7. #7

    Re: Do you use Woodwinds Sections?

    Prince:

    The idea is that if you have 3 flute patches, all 3 flutes are different ones.

    mixing solo flutes from the same library you end up with a weird sound that doesn't sound at all like a section. You need to use different articulations all the time, or even better differnet library and mess with it... So unison lines with 2-3 flutes can be kinda tight to accomplish...

    What libraries do not have 2nd violins? I know that EW, VLS, Kirk have... (GPO? I really think it does as well)

  8. #8

    Re: Do you use Woodwinds Sections?

    VSL doesn't have a second violins section, actually.

    With the one and only violin section, a bit of EQ and reverb tweaking, combined with a good stereo modeller to crunch the image down, and some accurate panning... you can fake the second violin section sound.

    A colleague of mine layers SISS with VSL to create a lusher, bigger-sounding first violin section, then uses the VSL violin section as is for the smaller-sounding second violins. Sounded good to me.

    I think most everybody else has a sampled second violin section, though.

    -Tom

    P.S. On topic - nope, never used a woodwind section, only solo's, though the sectional woodwinds in EWQLSO sound kinda crappy. Guess I could make some sections with GPO if I had to (which would probably sound fine).

  9. #9
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    Re: Do you use Woodwinds Sections?

    I could never understand why VSL doesn't have separate 2nd violins with 12 players to match the other sections. It's one of the reasons I haven't purchased their libraries.

    I never use woodwind section patches. It's very rare to see 3 of any woodwind instrument play unisons. Many times these instruments will play either chords or in octaves.

    Jim

  10. #10

    Re: Do you use Woodwinds Sections?

    Hey group,

    So here is my argument for the use of ensemble woodwind patches....

    I like to combine my solo and ensemble woodwind instruments, so that I can crossfade between them as neededusing the modwheel. Obviously it's best to use a solo patch when building chords, but for unison lines, I usually opt for the section sound. It's a pretty big color difference from solo --> ensemble, and it's usually easier to use the ens. patch rather than messing with separate solo patches. (it is for me at least)

    Here is the sound difference in case you're curious:

    1 Clarinet vs. 3 Clarinets STACCATO
    1 Clarinet vs. 3 Clarinets LEGATO

    There is something especially mellow about the sound of 3 clarinets playing in unison. It has a completely different feel than just a solo.

    1 Flute vs. 3 Flutes STACCATO
    1 Flute vs. 3 Flutes LEGATO

    Isn't that group of flutes so much more velvety?

    Another good reason to have woodwind ens. patches is for thicker, more resonant trills:

    1 Clarinet vs. 3 Clarinets TRILL
    1 Flute vs. 3 Flutes TRILL

    And finally, here is how I use these concepts in the real world:

    Ex. 1 - I spoof John Williams at least once every episode :-)
    Ex. 2 - Those groups of flutes and clarinets really give this cue something extra!
    Ex. 3 - The Staccato Bassoon section is nice and thick here. Much more effective than solo bassoon.

    There is another reason to use an ensemble patch over a solo one: to cover up weak samples. I find that solo patches are much more difficult than ens. patches to render life-like.

    OK, I spent way too long preparing that. Time to get back to work!

    -Alex

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