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Topic: Feature request for sample libraries

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  1. #1

    Feature request for sample libraries

    Hi sample library developers and fellow forum members,
    I have a feature request [Edit: that I think may be aptly termed a melodic expresser] for relevant existing libraries and libraries in production. I believe that it may improve the playability and musicality of many appropriate instruments in the libraries. I would very much appreciate your considering and discussing this concept, and while this functionality is much to ask for, I believe it could be very benefitial for many musicians.
    I feel that often ideally a sample library would allow both continuous gain and adjustable filtering linked to gain to be assigned to the modwheel in various combinations, and have note-centric mathematic timbre filtering which coexists with the modwheel gain and filtering that allows the playing of different timbre filter levels for each simultanious note dependant on velocity.
    Moreover, I feel that it would likewise be ideal if as an option a line of notes could be automatically analyzed when it is complete so that timbre filtrations for natural attack crescendi, sustain humanization variances, and decay decrescendi are applied for staccati, legati, and long notes while appropriately incorporating the velocity and modwheel timbre filtration variables for another higher level of efficiency and musicality during playback. What I think is great about smart and flexible timbre filtration is that any existing collection of samples can benefit from it with no further recording.
    My sincere gratitude and best regards,
    Chris. Dratz

  2. #2

    Re: Feature request for sample libraries

    Much of this sounds like what Gigastudio is doing with their DEF. If I assign a DEF to a sample, or use a sample that already contains it, I can change the timbre in real time, using the modwheel, while playing. It doesn't do the automatic thing, but I think I prefer controlling it myself (either in real time or by adding it later as a MIDI Merge recording), rather than entrusting it to an algorithm.

    - G

  3. #3
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    Re: Feature request for sample libraries

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamera
    Much of this sounds like what Gigastudio is doing with their DEF. If I assign a DEF to a sample, or use a sample that already contains it, I can change the timbre in real time, using the modwheel, while playing. It doesn't do the automatic thing, but I think I prefer controlling it myself (either in real time or by adding it later as a MIDI Merge recording), rather than entrusting it to an algorithm.

    - G
    I was thinking the same thing. It is also worth noting that the DEF is assignable to anycontroller you like, including velocity, or even a combination of velocity+cc. these options make for lots of expressive possibilities.

  4. #4

    Re: Feature request for sample libraries

    My thanks for the replies,
    I am aware of Giga DEF. Does it allow both velocity and modwheel controlled filtering to work together? Another reason I am interested in pursuing this subject further is optional smart filtering on finished melodic lines--that assists with rather than takes over the refinement process. Does DEF do that? Assuming it does, I would like to use these tools with libraries outside the Giga format and thus the open request.
    Cheers,
    Chris

  5. #5
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    Re: Feature request for sample libraries

    Quote Originally Posted by cmdratz
    My thanks for the replies,
    I am aware of Giga DEF. Does it allow both velocity and modwheel controlled filtering to work together? Another reason I am interested in pursuing this subject further is optional smart filtering on finished melodic lines--that assists with rather than takes over the refinement process. Does DEF do that? Assuming it does, I would like to use these tools with libraries outside the Giga format and thus the open request.
    Chris, It does allow simultaneous use of velocity and modwheel (or your choice of CC#), but I'm not sure what you mean by smart filtering: could you elaborate?

    Belbin

  6. #6
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    Re: Feature request for sample libraries

    Quote Originally Posted by belbin
    Chris, It does allow simultaneous use of velocity and modwheel (or your choice of CC#), but I'm not sure what you mean by smart filtering: could you elaborate?

    Belbin
    For starters, a reread of your first post has me thinking you're probably a "programs the midi with the mouse" guy, who wishes for a way to sequence expressive lines w/o playing them in or having to tweak endlessly? Am I near the mark?

    Belbin

  7. #7

    Re: Feature request for sample libraries

    Quote Originally Posted by belbin
    Chris, It does allow simultaneous use of velocity and modwheel (or your choice of CC#), but I'm not sure what you mean by smart filtering: could you elaborate?
    That's good! Sure, I can. I'm fairly certain that when I used the phrase "a line of notes" in the first post that I accidentally gave the impression that I was just talking about a bunch of notes that were clicked into the piano role; I attempted to leave open whether the part was played, entered note-by-note, or arrived at by combination of the two because I felt that this didn't matter as related to a helper filter or filter array that takes its best guess according to its programming, the sequence, and some prior input from the person sequencing the part to change the timbral characteristics of a batch of notes so that each note gains via the filter(s) natural timbral changes during its attack, sustain, and decay that will go hand in hand with the volume change in these three segments that we are already familiar with to give each note a more natural sound in and of itself and relative to the notes and rests around it, in an optional, non-destructive, and revisable way.
    Quote Originally Posted by belbin
    For starters, a reread of your first post has me thinking you're probably a "programs the midi with the mouse" guy, who wishes for a way to sequence expressive lines w/o playing them in or having to tweak endlessly? Am I near the mark?
    Belbin
    On average my time is evenly divided between playing, clicking, tweaking, and trying to find ways to fascilitate the technical and repetitive aspects of sequencing in order to focus on the music more.
    Cheers,
    Chris

  8. #8

    Re: Feature request for sample libraries

    Stephen,
    I have followed the three of those and arwa's project with interest. It is quite true that part of a "melodic expresser" could be done with a plugin. I feel that when we can use both real-time and post processing together with any library that will benefit from it, our creative process may improve, and listeners may notice more nuance in our music.
    Cheers,
    Chris

  9. #9
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    Re: Feature request for sample libraries

    Quote Originally Posted by cmdratz
    .....filter array that takes its best guess according to its programming, the sequence, and some prior input from the person sequencing the part to change the timbral characteristics of a batch of notes so that each note gains via the filter(s) natural timbral changes during its attack, sustain, and decay that will go hand in hand with the volume change in these three segments that we are already familiar with to give each note a more natural sound in and of itself and relative to the notes and rests around it, in an optional, non-destructive, and revisable way.
    .....
    [Disorganized Ramblefest]

    There are things like that that can be done in Giga, I know for sure. Whether it's been done, not so sure: The DEF, in addition to being controllable by CC# and/or Velocity, can have it's Wet/Dry (so to speak) Controlled by Envelope Generator 2 (at least I think it's 2), and various stages of the envelope can be programmed to respond to a choice of controllers, including velocity. The limitation, as I see it, is that attack, decay and release, for example, must use the same control source: That which affects a modulation in attack time will also affect one in decay time. These controllers are invertible, but the inversion or lack thereof is also restricted to one controller and one inversion setting for all parameters of the envelope, as is the depth to which the control source affects the parameter in question. But also remember that the regular (non-DEF) filter withing giga can be automated independantly of this. So say you had your def assigned to a combo of modwheel and velocity. You could set the def to ignore EG2, and use EG2 to affect, through automation of its parameters, the envelope of the normal filter, whose filter-independent parameters (resonance, etc) would be automated differently. There is some degree of flexibility here, especially considering that the DEF is "note-centric", as you put it, and since each parameter and its automation scheme can be different from note to note, split to split, region to region. I'm sure if you roll that up with a pinch of convolution (possibly automated to change setting on the fly ala gigapiano), and we'd be getting close to what you're asking for.

    [/Disorganized Ramblefest]


    Belbin

  10. #10

    Re: Feature request for sample libraries

    Belbin,
    Your information looks organized to me. I'm glad that there may soon be one way to do this stuff!
    [Edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by Belbin
    Thanks! I'm sure the next gen. of Giga will expand greatly on all of this. I am on a sort of downtime now, and will be experimenting with this among other things. Will post.
    That is truely kind of you, and I'll keep an eye out for it.]
    Cheers,
    Chris

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