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Topic: ProAudioVault Bluthner...

  1. #1

    ProAudioVault Bluthner...

    The Bluthner Digital Model One is shipping.

    I'm really impressed with what Dan and Ernest have accomplished. I have a lot of different piano's, but this is remarkably different. I can't wait to add this one to my collection.


  2. #2

    Re: ProAudioVault Bluthner...


    I am also quite interested in what this new piano has to offer.
    I am particularly keen to know whether there is sympathetic resonance
    capability. There is no specific mention of this in their webpage and I have
    written to them regarding this , but the reply I got was that there is sympathetic string resonance. I am not sure this is the same thing, as
    Ivory also has string resonance, but not sympathetic resonance.

    So far of all the software pianos I have ( and I have plenty) only Pianoteq
    and those pianos loaded onto K2 with PSR scripts produced sympathetic

    Maybe someone in this forum who has tried out this piano can
    provide some information on this.


  3. #3

    Re: ProAudioVault Bluthner...

    The term "sympathetic resonance" refers to vibrations of unstruck strings, stimulated by the vibrations of struck strings, so presumably, sympathetic string resonance would be sympathetic resonance. You might just write to them again, asking for a clarifcation. Screenshots of the interface might also tell you much, since there will be a control for this parameter.

    (If I remember correctly, Ivory has a simulated sympathetic string resonance.)

    If you write to them again, let us know the response. Looks like an interesting new instrument.

  4. #4

    Re: ProAudioVault Bluthner...

    Thanks for the information and link, Yes, this is very nice indeed. The last thing I need now is another piano library, but this thing sounds quite tempting. It is very different sounding than anything I've heard before. Since this is a Kontakt player, I was wondering if it may be possible to use the scripting capability of K2 with this to simulate resonance. I am keeping my eyes and ears open to see other users reaction and reviews on this, and may be even hoping for an introductory offer or something like that.


  5. #5

    Re: ProAudioVault Bluthner...

    Yes we do have sympathetic string resonance's - they are called sustain impulses (SI) and the user has 10 of them to choose from. Our SI's are much richer than other piano sample libraries. You can hear how our sustain sounds at http://www.proaudiovault.com/BDMO_Comparison_ex1.mp3 and you can hear the low level detail in this example http://www.proaudiovault.com/BDMO_Comparison_ex3.mp3

    Ernest Cholakis
    Numerical Sound/ProAudioVault

  6. #6

    Re: ProAudioVault Bluthner...


    I think some of the confusion is coming from comingling the terms "sympathetic resonance" with "impulses":

    If I understand the terms correctly, impulses that record sympathetic resonance are different from sympathetic resonance on each note. In Kontakt and PianoTeq, one can set the degree to which each note stimulates other strings to create harmonics. (Requires much programming of scripts in Kontakt.) The sympathetically vibrating strings will differ according to which note is struck. (A low bass note will vibrate more strings than a high note, for example, and a middle C will stimulate harmonics on some other strings but not just cause all of the other strings to vibrate at their fundamental.)

    I actually think both approaches may be needed, but they "record" different phenomena. An impulse will record the way in which all the strings vibrate when any note is struck. Sympathetic resonance renders only the octaves and harmonics that are produced by strings other than the struck string.

    Am I understanding the misundertanding?

  7. #7

    Re: ProAudioVault Bluthner...

    Maybe the developers could send a copy to Kornel Mezo, so that he could write a sympathetic resonance script for the BDMO.

  8. #8

    Re: ProAudioVault Bluthner...

    Demo sounds nice.

    Is there a UK distributor, or can I only buy from US?


  9. #9

    Re: ProAudioVault Bluthner...

    The BDMO has very accurate sympathetic resonance and therefore does not need any script. It is impossible to accurately model sympathetic resonances with Kontakt 2 scripting. The only way to achieve this is through convolution (sustain impulses) activated only when playing pedal down samples.

    I am not talking about release trigger samples. That cannot be modeled with any single or small group of impulses. The resonance of release trigger samples is extremely complex and changes in very unpredictable ways from note to note as one goes up the scale. All 88 notes have a very different RT tone component. Remember that this component of the tone is abound -40db below the level of the triggered piano tone so you have to isolate it and bring up the level of this to hear what I am talking about. The Blüthner Digital Model one has very very accurate Release Trigger samples.

    Note that the sympathetic resonances resonate in very complex ways with many partials (harmonic components not related to the pitch of the tone played) as well as the harmonic component. The only signal processing technology that allows us to add both these components is convolution triggered only on pedal down samples with sustain impulses. Also note that it is impossible to create pedal down samples from pedal up only samples with a "sustain impulse" - you have to have accurate pedal down samples.

    Another very important element that the BDMO sustain impulses adds is a broadening of the stereo field - which also happens in a real world piano. Note that we have patches that alows the user to use a variable (continuous) sustainpedal. The only one that outputs continuous midi cc# 64 and has 3 totally programmable pedals - amazing quality - looks and feels like real piano pedals is the CME's GPP3 http://www.cme-pro.com/products-list/product-gpp.html . I purchased one at www.audiomidi.com for under a $100 USD

    BDMO has one other programing element which I think is not common (??) is 3 separate release envelopes one for the pedal up another for the pedal down and a third for the release trigger decay.

    FYI - anyone can purchase the BDMO online - we ship to where ever !

    Ernest Cholakis
    Numerical Sound/Pro Audio Vault

  10. #10

    Re: ProAudioVault Bluthner...

    Just curious about how this one performs as an AU on a G5 2x2, the fact it's K2 based scares me regarding cpu needs and stability...


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