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Topic: Sequencers with Score-view capability

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  1. #1

    Sequencers with Score-view capability

    I'm not much on piano playing. I readily admit it, and I'm working to improve.

    As such, when I started sequencing, I loved the fact that the sequencer I started with, (some early version of Cakewalk's Home Studio), had what I thought was a very intuitive and useful score view. From it, I could enter notes on all tracks which were highlighted, seeing the staves of all of the tracks at once. This is the way for me, because I like to see both the layers of material and their actual notes when working.

    My question is this: Are there any other sequencers which possess this same capability, either for Mac or PC? I've heard it said neither Cubase nor Logic has the same functionality in the same manner. (IE being able to see all the tracks' staves at once). This is essential for me.

    Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

    Steve
    Steven J. Kukla
    Kuklamusic.com

  2. #2
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    Re: Sequencers with Score-view capability

    While you are surveying the field, you should check out the opposite solution - a notation program which incorporates sequencing facilities. There is currently only one. This one. http://www.geniesoft.com/ The ability to edit midi data on all lines of a notation without leaving the score is a great boon and the score is better than on a sequencer. The program, however, currently lacks an ability to mix midi tracks with audio for playback purposes. That may come in a future upgrade. Audio tracks, of course, cannot anyway be edited for expression on any type of software.

  3. #3

    Re: Sequencers with Score-view capability

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve_K
    I'm not much on piano playing. I readily admit it, and I'm working to improve.

    As such, when I started sequencing, I loved the fact that the sequencer I started with, (some early version of Cakewalk's Home Studio), had what I thought was a very intuitive and useful score view. From it, I could enter notes on all tracks which were highlighted, seeing the staves of all of the tracks at once. This is the way for me, because I like to see both the layers of material and their actual notes when working.

    My question is this: Are there any other sequencers which possess this same capability, either for Mac or PC? I've heard it said neither Cubase nor Logic has the same functionality in the same manner. (IE being able to see all the tracks' staves at once). This is essential for me.

    Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

    Steve
    Actually, Cubase and Nuendo do have this option, you just have to select MIDI events you want to show up in the score and choose "Open selection" from the Scores menu, or press CTRL+R. This brings up all the notes in the selected events written out in the score. You just have to set splits, snap and quantize to your needs and you're ready to go.

    Unfortunately, this doesn't go for Folder tracks in Cubase/Nuendo, just for selected MIDI events/parts.

  4. #4

    Re: Sequencers with Score-view capability

    I like to work in a somewhat similar manner. I stick to Cubase for many reasons but this scoring ability is one of the main points. It's the only seq I can speak for in this matter.

    Cubase can do this and it does it quite ok. You may need to edit the options to adapt the score view to your prefered way of working, but it can do this susprisingly well for not literally being a notational software. In cubase there are two main notational modes: Edit mode and page mode. Edit mode would be where you work, and Page mode is where you finish things up graphically. I use it when finishing up notation tasks at the end of a project - putting in global rehearsal marks and dynamic notes for example, instead of opening every single part and putting it in like that; that's 20 times more work. Althougt, you can put those markings in Edit mode just as well. Add to that, Cubase has got literally 'complete' MIDI editing possibilities as well so it's a good choice for that too.

    But if you're talking about looking at an entire orchestra score most of the time, then you will need to zoom in and out alot (this goes for almost all programs with notation capabilities). If you like paper and pencil style working big time, and don't do too much MIDI editing then you might want to have a look at notation software with extended MIDI capabilities.

    MIDI and notation are two worlds that are not quite adapted to each other - yet. Great notational programs leave you much to wish for in the audio representation of your work, and vice versa. The Notion software, which I'm not that familiar with, is one product developed recently with the clear intent to try closing this gap between notation and MIDI and try providing good notation and audio at the same time.
    Kid: When I become an adult I wanna be a musician.
    Parent: Son, you cannot become both.

  5. #5

    Re: Sequencers with Score-view capability

    This is really great news. Perhaps I will begin to seriously fuddle with cubase. Sonar has really been great for me, but there are certain things I just wish were better.

    I hear Nuendo is sort of... Cubase on Crack as it were? Can anyone attest to this? Would that be a better option if I could afford it? Also, (and this is a big thing), what are the capabilities of working in these ways with video? Can both Cubase and Nuendo handle video and export it to desired formats?

    Finally, are there any Mac solutions? I am considering switching platforms, but I have many other questions to ask about GVI and other such things which I wont muddle up this thread with.

    Thanks so much to both of you and to all others who can help and choose to do so!

    Steve
    Steven J. Kukla
    Kuklamusic.com

  6. #6

    Re: Sequencers with Score-view capability

    Having used both Cakewalk and Cubase (which is what I use now) I must say that for making/viewing a score Cubase SX is the best. However, with Cakewalk, inputing notes in the "staff-view" is way faster than inputting notes in Cubase's "score-editor".
    If you for instance want to input your notes in the pianoroll Cubase would be the best option. If you don't feel comfortable with programming in pianoroll, then Cakewalk/Sonar may be your best sollution. Cakewalk's staff-view is so easy to use and I really miss it, but for me Cubase has a lot of other powerful functions and I don't really program my music anymore like I used to before I learned how to play piano.

    I guess the answer to your question is that many sequencers have score-view capability, but the ease of use and functionallity differs very much...

    My 2 cents at least...

    Chris

  7. #7

    Re: Sequencers with Score-view capability

    Steve.

    just a short question:

    Why not use a notation program to enter the notes as fast as possible (which is pretty fast with sibelius or Finale) and then import the midi files to cubase/Sonar/Logic/Nuendo/etc? I mean, either way, nowadays most notatio programs have "decent" performances, so you can get a pretty good idea of what's going on and then insert to your sequencer for the necessary tweaking...

  8. #8

    Re: Sequencers with Score-view capability

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve_K
    I hear Nuendo is sort of... Cubase on Crack as it were? Can anyone attest to this? Would that be a better option if I could afford it? Also, (and this is a big thing), what are the capabilities of working in these ways with video? Can both Cubase and Nuendo handle video and export it to desired formats?

    Finally, are there any Mac solutions? I am considering switching platforms, but I have many other questions to ask about GVI and other such things which I wont muddle up this thread with.
    Nuendo can do everything that cubase can - give or take a few peripheral things. Nuendo is more about 'large scale' than cubase is. It includes alot more things that has to do with post production, pure studio work and large scale media formats. It's got support for all types of surround monitoring and industrial type audio hardware ... it's Steinberg's challenger to Protools, if you will. Cubase is more aimed towards the composer/musician, who has little need of being able to switch between 4 monitor sets or support for 10.2 surround monitoring - as an example. Nuendo is almost 3 times the price of cubase. There is a list of 'what nuendo can do over cubase' on steinberg's site. EDIT: here's that list.

    They can both handle video well, but they cannot export video, like you asked about. Depending on the source video format, it may be able to replace the original audio material in the video directly with whatever audio you export from cubase/nuendo. But I assume most people export their audio and then add it to the video in a separate process using other software.

    Both Nuendo and Cubase are available for mac. But I keep hearing that it has become more buggy and lesser support on mac. Nuendo version 4 is scheduled for this fall.
    Kid: When I become an adult I wanna be a musician.
    Parent: Son, you cannot become both.

  9. #9

    Re: Sequencers with Score-view capability

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomke
    Nuendo can do everything that cubase can - give or take a few peripheral things. Nuendo is more about 'large scale' than cubase is. It includes alot more things that has to do with post production, pure studio work and large scale media formats. It's got support for all types of surround monitoring, extended virtual connection possibilities ... it's Steinberg's challenger to Protools, if you will. Cubase is more aimed towards the composer/musician, who has little need of being able to switch between 4 monitor sets or support for 10.2 surround monitoring - as an example. Nuendo is almost 3 times the price of cubase. There is a list of 'what nuendo can do over cubase' on steinberg's site. EDIT: here's that list.
    And the most imporant thing? Looks better!

  10. #10

    Re: Sequencers with Score-view capability

    Quote Originally Posted by atmajian
    And the most imporant thing? Looks better!
    Kid: When I become an adult I wanna be a musician.
    Parent: Son, you cannot become both.

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