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Topic: SSIS... VI ... Best use for 1k

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  1. #1

    SSIS vs. VI Appassionata - Best use for 1k?

    Hi all,

    I'm going to need to make a purchase here pretty soon, so I thought I'd through this up for some advice.

    Pretend (or don't), that you've got 1k to spend. I've been eying the SSIS String Collection now for a while. It's stayed pretty close to that much for a good bit, and I'll wager it might be cheaper given I'm a student and apparently, there are discounts. I've always loved the sound of the demos I've heard, and I need better strings...

    As I browse the plethora of VSL products, though, (A daunting task, in my opinion), I begin to wonder if there might be a better deal out there for my seldom-seen money. I see that the Standard + Extended versions of the Appassionata Strings are just over 1k, and this new 'Vienna Collection' is as well. Opus 1 has served me well, but the idea of playing Vienna Instruments without the nasty performance tool gets me kind of excited in a bad way...

    Now, the VI Special Edition says that it contains, as a Bonus, the staccato and sustain samples from the Appassionata... I suppose I wonder, too, when folks buy these libraries, do you go for the "bargain" collections and then try to fill in the holes, or do you just buy them one at a time?

    One last question I had was, since I am using a 2 box rig at the moment, with GS3 on a second box connected via crossover cat5 to my laptop daw, how...do these VI instruments work, since they're vst? Could I, for example, put some sort of data file, or the samples or whatever on one machine and just use the vst interface on the daw? Can I even take advantage of a two box rig anymore?

    Suggestions? Comments? All are welcome and appreciated!

    Steve
    Steven J. Kukla
    Kuklamusic.com

  2. #2

    Re: SSIS... VI ... Best use for 1k

    Maybe my opinion is off, but VI Special Edition seems like a bad idea for people who plan on buying the full VI packages. It's like throwing your money out the window, because there is no upgrade path from that package. So once you try out VI SE and determine you like VI and start buying the full packages, you are no longer using VI SE obviously, because you have the full deal. It's like spending $500 (or for those who don't own Opus, $1000) to "try out" VI. I think the money would be better spent towards the full VI packages. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about upgrade paths from VI SE to the full VI packages, I don't want to state any misinformation. EDIT: I suppose if you're going to stick with VI SE for a long time and you're content with that, then it's not such a waste of money. But for someone like me who is ready to jump into the VI packages, VI SE would be a bad way for me to spend my money.

    I'm going for Appassionata Strings as my first VI purchase. I need really lush, legato strings, and I think VI AS is the ticket. I think of it this way: with most of the stuff I write, I use the performance legato with strings and woodwinds mostly. And even if you have 8GB RAM, GigaStudio3 has a ridiculous RAM limitation.. so you load up just a few legato strings and winds and you're barely left with enough RAM to work with. If I use VI for my strings and winds, VI has that kickass RAM optimization where it only stores in RAM the exact notes/articulations you use.. so if you have a legato violin playing A -> E -> G, it throws out all other notes from memory. This will be a HUGE resource saver.

    I'm excited to start making the move towards VI. I'm also getting away from Windows + Giga + Sonar as my platform for composition and will be transitioning to Mac + Kontakt + Logic Pro. Exciting times ahead..
    Sam Hulick
    Composer
    http://www.samhulick.com/

  3. #3

    Re: SSIS vs. VI Appassionata - Best use for 1k?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve_K
    Hi all,

    I'm going to need to make a purchase here pretty soon, so I thought I'd through this up for some advice.

    Pretend (or don't), that you've got 1k to spend. I've been eying the SSIS String Collection now for a while. It's stayed pretty close to that much for a good bit, and I'll wager it might be cheaper given I'm a student and apparently, there are discounts. I've always loved the sound of the demos I've heard, and I need better strings...

    As I browse the plethora of VSL products, though, (A daunting task, in my opinion), I begin to wonder if there might be a better deal out there for my seldom-seen money. I see that the Standard + Extended versions of the Appassionata Strings are just over 1k, and this new 'Vienna Collection' is as well. Opus 1 has served me well, but the idea of playing Vienna Instruments without the nasty performance tool gets me kind of excited in a bad way...

    Now, the VI Special Edition says that it contains, as a Bonus, the staccato and sustain samples from the Appassionata... I suppose I wonder, too, when folks buy these libraries, do you go for the "bargain" collections and then try to fill in the holes, or do you just buy them one at a time?

    One last question I had was, since I am using a 2 box rig at the moment, with GS3 on a second box connected via crossover cat5 to my laptop daw, how...do these VI instruments work, since they're vst? Could I, for example, put some sort of data file, or the samples or whatever on one machine and just use the vst interface on the daw? Can I even take advantage of a two box rig anymore?

    Suggestions? Comments? All are welcome and appreciated!

    Steve
    I'm not sure if this answers your question because the only part I understood was that it is a string instrument you want.. I have no knowledge of the library you refer to, so this may be obsolete data.

    This is not my opinion, just stuff that I've read from other users:

    1. That the best solo violin is the Garritan Stradivari (not sure what formats) I also heard there is or will be some kind of cello version.
    2. That there are a lot of overpriced libraries and you should try to get opinons from other users and demos can be deceiving (which you have probably already guessed since you're here.
    3. I hate to sound like a Garritan advertisement, but I keep hearing that his Giga Strings was/is very good for quite a low price...in fact, the may have been the strings I always used with Gigasampler, but that was a long time ago when I was on Win 98 , Gigastudio won't work on my computer, so everything has been packed in a box for a long, long time in my parents basement. Again, just what I've read from other users when I asked the same question.
    4. Regardless of library, many users feel it is neccessary to layer solo and ensemble patches, or mix libraries. I read that GPO (here I go again...honestly, I don't work for Gary and I have very little personal experience with his stuff) has some kind of Kontakt Script for layering identical patches without phasing trouble.

    I am a total amateur, I cannot stress enough. Strings are my achile's heel. This is just what was said to me when I asked the same question. There were many other libraries mentioned, but I think they were over $600, so I personally ignored them...I don't make money from my music...even though I spend a lot of time on it and dream to one day.

    You may want to see: http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/...ad.php?t=52932

  4. #4

    Re: SSIS... VI ... Best use for 1k

    Yes, basically what it boils down to is:

    SSIS Symphonic Strings or VI Appassionata Strings?

    I had some concerns about using the VIs with a dual box set up, or... more accurately--would I even need to? I spoke with one of their technical people today, though, and he assured me that if I wanted, I could keep all VI and GS3 stuff on a separate box and run it straight over my existing crossover cat 5 cable...

    I am wondering now about practical RAM usage with these VI things. Seems like one could simply buy a huge HD, store the VI stuff on that, run that via firewire and away you go. What're the practical RAM specs from somebody who uses them?

    Crazyox, thanks a ton for your suggestions, though. I appreciate them and have been eying the Garritan Strad for a while....

    S.
    Steven J. Kukla
    Kuklamusic.com

  5. #5
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    Re: SSIS... VI ... Best use for 1k

    on VI Pro I have heard some amazing demos of VI Appassionata Strings?
    But it was created as lush Hollywood style sound for those strings.
    I honestly think SSIS Symphonic Strings are better more rounded for different styles and just sound fantastic perhaps the best strings out ther really!
    unless you have(gulp) Vista set up your Ram is going to be 2 gigs, of course you can use multiple machines to run your libs.

    Yea I wish I had a Mac! if I had a mac I could buy all Soundtoys Plugins Now yea!

    I think you will need to demo each lib to determine what you want and what your going to use it for for strings.

    I hope Garritan after he releases Viola Version brings out another different tone style Violin other then Stradivari so we can do Quartets! and it would be cool to do that!

    anyone else?
    All I can Say is...HA!...HA!...HAAAAAAA!!!!!

  6. #6

    Re: SSIS vs. VI Appassionata - Best use for 1k?

    Just wanted to comment on crazyox. I hope he doesn't mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by crazyox
    1. That the best solo violin is the Garritan Stradivari (not sure what formats) I also heard there is or will be some kind of cello version.
    The strad comes with its own player K2 player, so there's no need for a sampler. The cello is already out Gofriller it's called and the viola should be out in a few months or so (God willing). I agree that it is the best solo violin around.
    2. That there are a lot of overpriced libraries and you should try to get opinons from other users and demos can be deceiving (which you have probably already guessed since you're here.
    Indeed... on that respect EW is usually a little decieving, although you do actually get a decent sound out of the box.
    3. I hate to sound like a Garritan advertisement, but I keep hearing that his Giga Strings was/is very good for quite a low price...in fact, the may have been the strings I always used with Gigasampler, but that was a long time ago when I was on Win 98 , Gigastudio won't work on my computer, so everything has been packed in a box for a long, long time in my parents basement. Again, just what I've read from other users when I asked the same question.
    The GOS was a great library and I still hold much much love to that library. IT was the first to offer such articulations and such lush sound...

  7. #7

    Re: SSIS... VI ... Best use for 1k

    Yes, basically what it boils down to is:
    SSIS Symphonic Strings or VI Appassionata Strings?
    If this is the case - no reason why it shouldn't be, as they are both the best string ensemble libraries out there commercially at the moment, then I would seriously think about budgeting for both. Neither of them, when used on their own are the dream ticket, but the two layered together sound pretty awesome for sampled strings. Appassionata is great for unisons, voice leading, and fortissimo passages, but i would not like to use it on its own, as it sounds more synthlike compared to say Vienna orchestral strings when used in thicker textures. This is where SI strings come in - they have a much smaller, precise sound, which can be used effectively in chords, harmonies etc, for inner parts, but lacks the sheer lushness of the Vienna Appassionatas in higher registers. The espressivo patches sound a little odd on their own because of the wide vibrato and small sections. Layered with appassionata though, and you get a much richer tone.

  8. #8

    Re: SSIS... VI ... Best use for 1k

    Quote Originally Posted by StrangeCat
    I hope Garritan after he releases Viola Version brings out another different tone style Violin other then Stradivari so we can do Quartets! and it would be cool to do that!
    Good news. Gary stated recently that he will be adding a Guarneri to the solo strings collection instead of the Amati bass.

  9. #9

    Re: SSIS... VI ... Best use for 1k

    Thanks, Tommo!

    What I was afraid of! Of course it makes the most sense. Perhaps I'm putting too much stock into the VI's. To me, they seemed like the "do-all" instrument.

    One other option, since you mention VI Orchestral Strings, is to go with the VI Special Edition package, which I'd get for a nice price, since I have Opus 1. But then I wonder, it's another smattering of libraries, would it be better to go for complete collections.

    Hrm...
    Steven J. Kukla
    Kuklamusic.com

  10. #10

    Re: SSIS... VI ... Best use for 1k

    I own the Vienna Instruments Symphonic Cube AND the Special Edition (I got the Extended Library for Special Edition for free b/c I already owned the Symphonic Cube).

    My two cents:

    The Special Edition is a truly amazing library.. but keep in mind that you only get the Appassionata samples if you purchase the extended library! Keep that in mind. When I use Special Edition, I layer App. Strings with Orch Strings with Chamber Strings with Solo Strings... The effect is really great, although you can imagine how tedious the mixing process it.

    One weakness of the Special Edition is that you CANNOT run it from more than one computer. There is only one license associated with it, which can exist only on one Viennakey. Bummer for those who were expecting to spread Special Edition across many computers!

    If you're looking for an all around great collection of MANY instruments, Special Edition is the way to go. One argument for Special Edition in this case is that you get the important articulations for solo strings, chamber strings (3 Celli, 8 Vln), orch strings (8 Celli, 14 Vln), AND sustain and staccato (NOT legato) samples for App. Strings. Along with that you get AMAZING solo and group woodwind/brass legatos, a scaled-down Bosendorfer, (which blends with the orchestra VERY, VERY well), a nice harp, and a SWEET collection of percussion instruments. Extended version comes with Saxophones as well!

    You can find the list of Special Edition articulations here: SPECIAL EDITION
    Make sure to check out the "std/ext" comparison. Many of the cooler samples are only part of the extended library.

    Good luck and happy composing!

    -Alex

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