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Topic: Levels of multisamples

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  1. #1

    Levels of multisamples

    Why are the levels of multisamples in - let's say - an eight-level sound prefixed at different levels going from soft to hard when the sampler handles the dynamics with velocity-to-volume anyway?
    Don't get me wrong here - of course I want the sound to go from recorded soft hits to harder hits - but why aren't they "normalized" so the source of dynamics is only one instead of two?

  2. #2

    Re: Levels of multisamples

    Quote Originally Posted by mondoenigma
    Why are the levels of multisamples in - let's say - an eight-level sound prefixed at different levels going from soft to hard when the sampler handles the dynamics with velocity-to-volume anyway?
    Don't get me wrong here - of course I want the sound to go from recorded soft hits to harder hits - but why aren't they "normalized" so the source of dynamics is only one instead of two?
    I'm not sure I know the answer, because I'm a rank amateur at making my own samples. But I did once try a library (of prepared piano samples) the way you're suggesting. I found that, although I'd got pretty good sample to noise ratio with all of my samples, normalising them seemed to drastically alter this ratio for the quieter samples - and reducing them in volume using the sampler didn't reverse this problem; the noise remained quite noticeable at the quieter end. In the end I reverted to mapping the samples to different velocities, and turning off the velocity-volume facility in Kontakt. Of course getting a realistic transition purely by virtue of different layers requires a LOT of layers.

  3. #3

    Re: Levels of multisamples

    Well - I decided on Peak-Normalize the samples at -0.3db and dragging the velocity-to-volume slider in Kontakt down from 100 to 60 and that gives me full kontakt dynamically with the softer sounds in a note with minor vel-curve adjustments for the various keyboards I play.
    All this came up when combining sounds from different drum-libs to a kit. Works like a charm now

  4. #4

    Re: Levels of multisamples

    Quote Originally Posted by mondoenigma
    Well - I decided on Peak-Normalize the samples at -0.3db and dragging the velocity-to-volume slider in Kontakt down from 100 to 60 and that gives me full kontakt dynamically with the softer sounds in a note with minor vel-curve adjustments for the various keyboards I play.
    All this came up when combining sounds from different drum-libs to a kit. Works like a charm now
    Yes, so as you did it works fine.

    I am editing drumsamples now because I have bought me today the Alesis ControlPad and want to get a best realistic sound... .
    "Music is the shorthand of emotion." Leo Tolstoy

    Listen to me, tuning my triangle http://www.box.net/shared/ae822u6r3i

  5. #5

    Re: Levels of multisamples

    Midi velocity is usually set to control volume in part because of the history of sampling: early multisamples had only one or two layers, so setting velocity to amplitude (along with filter and often sample start) encouraged the illusion of playing a real instrument. Even with 8 layers, velocity to amplitude gives one a wider range of amplitudes.

    One movement now in big libraries is to sample at many, many volumes\attack strengths, so some pianos have 80 or so layers. There, too, however, the usual practice is to use velocity to amplitude because it lets one have 127 levels of amplitude without having to have 127 samples.

  6. #6

    Re: Levels of multisamples

    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Johnson
    Midi velocity is usually set to control volume in part because of the history of sampling: early multisamples had only one or two layers, so setting velocity to amplitude (along with filter and often sample start) encouraged the illusion of playing a real instrument. Even with 8 layers, velocity to amplitude gives one a wider range of amplitudes.

    One movement now in big libraries is to sample at many, many volumes\attack strengths, so some pianos have 80 or so layers. There, too, however, the usual practice is to use velocity to amplitude because it lets one have 127 levels of amplitude without having to have 127 samples.
    That`s right.

    The problem in a drumlibrarie is, if you have for example only 3 samples at a note, you will often hear the changes too clearly. If the drums are in the background at a song then it is less a problem. But, if you play a solo drumpart, then the result is often unsatisfactorily... . That`s the reason for me to edit, making the crossing less audibly.
    "Music is the shorthand of emotion." Leo Tolstoy

    Listen to me, tuning my triangle http://www.box.net/shared/ae822u6r3i

  7. #7

    Re: Levels of multisamples

    Nowadays when everything is Instruments with monolithic/locked libs you can get older/free libs for pocket money And I like my Kontakt.
    I got hold of Purrrfect Studiocat cymbals second hand for 20€ in a local shop
    Now these are the best cymbals I've ever played. It's 16 level and I have actually adopted his "dynamic mapping" - ie - the top layers is like 126-127 and 124-125 for the next und zu weiter. Going down they expand to like 102-109 - you get the idea. The one at the bottom is 1-61. This works great since my velocities are groovin' around 70-110 with occasionally highs and lows. My other drums goes from 4 layer (crashes/splashes) to 24 layers (snares) and remapping them after jim's scheme really makes them shine. And everything is peak-normalized to 0.03db - I just want velocity to affect the instrument like in real life. I have other controls for other stuff.

    Now - why didn't I start out as a drummer in the first place? hehe I love this ~~~~!

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