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Topic: An open appeal to Democrats for cooperation

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  1. #1

    An open appeal to Democrats for cooperation

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    Hello, all. Good to see you all again. I haven't spoken to most of you in quite a while. But I couldn't resist posting this since I think you'll find what I have to say this time to be very, very interesting.

    I don't know if any of you watched the first two GOP debates, or how much you've been following that side of the race, but if you haven't, you should check out Ron Paul. I think you'd find you agree with him a lot more than you probably thought it possible to agree with any Republican. Go do a search on YouTube with his name and watch some of the videos that come up.

    After the GOP debates, Ron Paul experienced a huge surge in online polls. He's been coming in on the top or second-place positions consistently. I believe he just *might* have a chance in the Republican primary.

    What does this have to do with Democrats? Well, in addition to voting against almost everything the Republicans propose (Patriot Act, No Child Left Behind, Faith-based initiatives, etc) he's the only GOP candidate who is against the Iraq war and wants to see the US leave other countries alone (presuming they leave us alone). Think for a moment about what this could mean. If this man were to win the GOP nomination, we would essentially be guaranteed an anti-war president. Indeed, I think he is more committed against the war than the current crop of Democratic front-runners.

    But if Congressman Paul is to have any chance in the primary, we need every vote we can get. I'm proposing that Democrats put their money where their mouth is (metaphorically speaking, of course) and switch their party registration to Republican to help Ron Paul win the Republican primary. If we can do that, our disengagement from Iraq will be guaranteed no matter what happens after that in the election. Think about it.

    Fox News dislikes Ron Paul, Sean Hannity hates Ron Paul, and most other neocon pundits hate Ron Paul. Just imagine the sweet justice it would be to see these guys have to pull for an anti-war candidate simply because he's from their party! You can't pass this up. Think about it, seriously.

    Greetings to all my friends (and former enemies )! Hopefully we can patch together an alliance this once and get something accomplished.

  2. #2
    Moderator/Developer Brian2112's Avatar
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    Talking Re: An open appeal to Democrats for cooperation

    Hi Brady!!!!!
    Well I’ll be a ….
    Good to hear from you!

    It is very interesting what you propose. I don’t think a whole lot of Democrats are going “switch boats” as it were (though I would argue that we’re all in the same one and it’s sinking) . Speaking for myself, it would be refreshing to get a “real” Republican get the nomination. I like what Paul said about 911 being the result of a whole lot of bad foreign policy coming back to bite us. He was chided for it with the typical simple minded response that somehow he is blaming America for 911. Nothing justifies what happened on that day – nothing! But it takes real courage to come out and question weather or not we have, in any way, perpetuated a climate in which this extreme hatred towards us is exploited and made manifest in such abhorrent ways. I think it is a very valid point. It is uncomfortable for some of us to look in the mirror this way. It is far easier just to point the finger and live in denial.
    I am of the belief that the Republican Party has always stood for some of our most noble values. It was formed to oppose slavery. They have ever been champions of civil liberties, fiscal responsibility, deficit reduction, limiting the power of the executive, free market economics, and the wisdom of promoting the idea that having a good moral compass that places family right at the top is a good idea. It is because of this that I believe that of all people betrayed by the Bush administration, the Republicans have been betrayed the most.
    We have lost civil liberties, our deficit has gone through the roof, the executive has been given unprecedented powers, our “free markets” have been hijacked by a socialist corporateocracy, and our “family values” are at risk because of the elements of a theocracy that have been added as of late. The separation of church and state exists not to keep religion out of government; it exists to keep government out of religion. But once you get religion too far into government, then naturally the government gets too far into our faith.
    But the point is this Brady; this is something the Republican Party has to sort out itself. There are already a multitude of candidates on “the other side” who already subscribe to this view. I tend to support Sen. Obama at this point because he is no raging liberal like some of the others. He has authored and co-sponsored real legislation with Republicans (who are quite for off from being of the “liberal” sort) and had it passed and become law.
    Extremists in both parties have led us into the abyss. I want the voice of moderation. It is my view that, as a whole, the Democrats have moved to the center while the Republicans have moved to the extreme left – yes LEFT!
    I hope that we can choose between candidates that put country ahead of party or ideology.
    Good too hear from you Brady!
    "So what if some parts of life are a crap shoot? Get out there and shoot the crap." -- Neil Peart
    Hint:1.6180339887498948482 Φ

  3. #3

    Re: An open appeal to Democrats for cooperation

    Good to hear from you again, Brian! I agree with you about Republicans, Brian. Bush, etc. have betrayed us. It's interesting the points you made about the history of the Republican Party. Paul made a very similar point in the second Republican debate. The neocons there kept insinuating that he was running in the wrong party (since he was against the war). But he responded that the Republicans have always been (until recently) the anti-war party. He gave the examples of Korea and Vietnam, and even showed how Bush was elected on a platform of a humble foreign policy (which flew out the window once he was elected).

    My thinking is, however, even if you support someone like Obama or Hillary, it's in all of our best interests to make sure BOTH sides of the aisle are in line with regards to the war. If we don't, and another neocon gets the GOP nod, then we've got to run the gauntlet in November '08 and hold our breath. On the other hand, if we do everything in our power to get Ron Paul to the finals, we'll be assured that no matter what happens, our country's entanglement in Iraq will end. Plus, as you pointed out, it might serve the dual purpose of bringing the GOP back to its true (anti-war and pro-liberty) roots and shoo out the neocons who have hijacked it for the past few decades.

  4. #4

    Re: An open appeal to Democrats for cooperation

    What about Guliani though? Tough, cleaned up New York, got it in the black, and he's pro choice, pro gay civil union and even pro gun control (which I don't agree with, but whatever.) Much better known and electable. He's really a Libertarian at heart, but don't tell anyone I don't think he would have ever got into that war but at least he wants to get out as soon as possible- but by leaving the area stable in the process.

  5. #5

    Re: An open appeal to Democrats for cooperation

    Brady!

    From another bird who's flown the coop, welcome back!

    I like Ron Paul, even more so because the Republican machine fears him. I read how he was one of only 4 Republican Congressmen that supported Reagan in 1976--and think of the radical change to the party establishment that Reagan made (and how much of that legacy has been eroded since).

    I honestly haven't spent too much time on the election at this point, but I know enough to not care for Giuliani or McCain and doubt Romney has a chance. Ron Paul has the chance, if nothing else, to reframe the debate. If enough conservatives (not Republicans) support Paul, we'll see two marked changes; a marked difference between the two parties and someone who embraces the core of Conservative values, especially WRT fiscal responsibility and the size of the Federal government.

    Glad to be able to talk to you again--gotta spread my wings and while away again….

    Wes
    I remain solely responsible for the content of my messages, and agree to indemnify and hold harmless northern sound source, and their agents with respect to any claim based upon transmission of my message(s). Rock on.

  6. #6

    Re: An open appeal to Democrats for cooperation

    Thanks for the reply, Fred. Here are the reasons I think Giuliani is 1) not as electable (in the general election) and 2) not a preferable alternative to Ron Paul:

    1) I don't think Giuliani would stand as much of a chance in the general election for several reasons. One is, he comes off rather flustered when asked a hard question (did you see the GOP debates?), and then winds up saying something that doesn't make much sense (see below). He is for an interventionist foreign policy. His own campaign website implies that Iraq was somehow involved in 9-11 (parroting Bush's false propaganda) by saying the war we're in is because they attacked us. He is basically another neocon who will continue to expand the powers of the executive (ala PATRIOT Act) and comes off as just that. By comparison, he will look like just another Bushie next to Obama, Hillary, or whomever.

    Ron Paul, on the other hand, would be a clean departure from Bush and I think voters on both sides would appreciate that. He also brings a completely fresh message (or at least one that hasn't really been heard since before World War II). He doesn't pander to people and try to please everyone, and people respect that. For the first time in decades (if not more), we would have someone in the race who is not just another politician, kissing babies and putting on a plastic smile. I think all of America would be refreshed by that, and I think it would show in his support.

    2) I don't believe Giuliani (or many of the other candidates, for that matter) has any understanding of the Constitution, which is the most important thing for a candidate to understand. Why do I say that? Because he isn't merely pro-choice, but when asked, said that since Roe v Wade established that abortion is a Constitutional right, that he would support free abortions paid for by the federal government (read: you and me). That is an egregious error. I, for instance, believe the 2nd Amendment protects my Constitutional right to bear arms, but that doesn't mean I think the federal government ought to have to buy me a gun. So this means one of two things (or both). Either Giuliani has absolutely zero sense of what the Constitution means and what "rights" mean, or he is a slippery politician who wants to please everyone and is trying to BS is way out of a hard question. Either way, I find him unsuitable to be President as a result. BTW, here's the video where he said this:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiWah5s8d8M

    I really don't think Giuliani is libertarian at all. A libertarian would never propose that the public should have to pay for free abortions, nor that guns be banned.

    Hey, Wes! Good to see you again! I think you're right. It's interesting you mention Reagan. The GOP right now is lambasting Paul because they say he is not really a Republican, but a libertarian. Well, Reagan, who these same Republicans claim to worship, used the "L-word" all the time. Probably more than he used the term "conservative". Problem is, Reagan talked a good game, but fell well short of his rhetoric. I don't think that will be the case with Paul.

  7. #7

    Re: An open appeal to Democrats for cooperation

    Brady,

    How do you think Reagan fell short? Considering where this country was when he took office to when he left, I think he did great things for this country.

    I'm not "questioning" you, just want to know your thoughts.

    Wes
    I remain solely responsible for the content of my messages, and agree to indemnify and hold harmless northern sound source, and their agents with respect to any claim based upon transmission of my message(s). Rock on.

  8. #8

    Re: An open appeal to Democrats for cooperation

    Dems plan Iraq bill minus timeline but with benchmarks (That Bush can waive)

    I am so disappointed! Honestly, I give up and need a break from all of this. Nothing every changes and all things are as there were <---- a mess!

    "We're going to continue our battle -- and that's what it is -- to represent the American people like they want us to represent them, to change the course of the war in Iraq," Reid said.

    Time will tell I suppose but this is lame start!
    Bela D Media | www.BelaDMedia.com

  9. #9

    Re: An open appeal to Democrats for cooperation

    Wes, Reagan capitulated on a lot of issues and never really tried to follow through on issues he claimed want to pursue. He also pursued some issues which I don't think were libertarian, or Constitutionalist at all. The list of examples would be too long to go into in detail here, but I'll give you an example of each.

    Capitulation: raised taxes when he passed the TEFRA, Highway Revenue, and other acts. In fact, he raised taxes in every year of his administration but two.

    Didn't follow through: did not abolish the NEA as he claimed, and did not reform entitlement programs as he promised.

    Non-libertarian pursuits: The war on drugs, etc.

    Government spending increased on his watch, despite his claims to want to reduce it, and now with Bush, (non-war) spending has expanded at a rate roughly twice that under Clinton. But unlike Reagan, Ron Paul has a long voting record to back up his fiscally responsible campaign promises.

    Bela D, unfortunately, I think this goes to prove that despite rhetoric to the contrary, the Democrats are not as anti-war as they pretend to be. Vote Ron Paul and you won't be disappointed.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_G29QYev1oQ

  10. #10

    Re: An open appeal to Democrats for cooperation

    Quote Originally Posted by Brady


    2) I don't believe Giuliani (or many of the other candidates, for that matter) has any understanding of the Constitution, which is the most important thing for a candidate to understand. Why do I say that? Because he isn't merely pro-choice, but when asked, said that since Roe v Wade established that abortion is a Constitutional right, that he would support free abortions paid for by the federal government (read: you and me). That is an egregious error. I, for instance, believe the 2nd Amendment protects my Constitutional right to bear arms, but that doesn't mean I think the federal government ought to have to buy me a gun. So this means one of two things (or both). Either Giuliani has absolutely zero sense of what the Constitution means and what "rights" mean, or he is a slippery politician who wants to please everyone and is trying to BS is way out of a hard question. Either way, I find him unsuitable to be President as a result. BTW, here's the video where he said this:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiWah5s8d8M

    I really don't think Giuliani is libertarian at all. A libertarian would never propose that the public should have to pay for free abortions, nor that guns be banned.
    Interesting. I didn't know Rudy had ever said anything like that regarding abortion being funded by the government but if he did you are 100% right. I know nothing about Paul- I'll be checking him out pretty thoroughly though now. Glad you brought it up!

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