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Topic: REQUIEM - Heaven from Hell (R. Kemp)

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  1. #1
    Senior Member rayzalaf's Avatar
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    Wink REQUIEM - Heaven from Hell (R. Kemp)

    Here is my Requiem.

    My intension is that this is played at my own funeral as I leave the church in my box.
    At some considerable time in the future may I add.

    Ray

    All instruments provided by Garritan Personal Orchestra Second Edition


    Requiem - Heaven from Hell in Bb

    Last edited by rayzalaf; 07-03-2007 at 08:57 AM. Reason: NEW MIX 26th May

  2. #2
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    Re: REQUIEM - Heaven from Hell (R. Kemp)

    Hi Ray. I didnít notice any different music (or not much) but I did notice that it seems cleaned up and the rendering is much better. In the contest the instruments (other than the organ) sounded a little synthy while now they seem more realistic.

    This reminds me a lot of something but I canít put my finger on it. Maybe Larry Fastís solo project, Synergy? I have some old Synergy vinyl, but my turntable stopped working years ago so I canít listen to seeÖ.

    Anyway, I like this a lot and I hope it isnít played for its intended purpose any time soon.
    Trent P. McDonald

  3. #3

    Re: REQUIEM - Heaven from Hell (R. Kemp)

    HI Ray.

    Nice job on balancing an organ with an orchestra. THat's not easy!!! Are you by chance an organist?

    Matt

  4. #4

    Re: REQUIEM - Heaven from Hell (R. Kemp)

    I've been looking forward to hearing this, Ray--Thanks for getting this up online for us.

    I certainly agree with Matthew, that the balance between the pipe organ and orchestra sure seems to work. The organ's timbres are always distinguishable from the strings even when they're sharing the same frequencies. I've had a problem of those elements blending together too much when I've tried something of this nature.

    What specifically are you unhappy about in the balance and mix? Are there lines you want to have stand out more? I could certainly hear the nice counter-melodies, the Horns were differentiated, this recording works for me.

    But I'm wondering if you're not experiencing what I ALways do--wishing that every single element could somehow simultaneously stand on its own while still being part of the ensemble sound. I think we tend to get into a bit of a bind with that idea, falling in love with single lines of a piece --temporarily forgetting that the main purpose of each line is to blend with the rest, add to the weight of the total, and not for them to be solo parts--Know what I mean?

    But do let us know what you're not happy with in this, if you're able to describe it. Maybe some ideas for new mix ideas will come up.

    I agree with Trent that this full version is a more successful recording than the one you previously posted, with the orchestra more life-like than before. Is that a matter of more reverb, or did you do more "humanizing" editing, or--? I'm always curious about the work people do on their projects.

    One more note--I know this is a requiem--But I keep getting a cold chill, the way you always refer to this as what you want to have played at your funeral! I'm glad you said "...at some considerable time in the future..."--! But Ray, it's So somber, tragic even. It's interesting this is the mood you would like to prevail as you leave your church for the final time.--?

    Um---OK, when does my name get added to your copyright notice??---

    Thanks, Ray. It was great to hear the full blown piece this Challenge #12 theme inspired you to write. You're such a multi-faceted talent.

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)

  5. #5
    Senior Member rayzalaf's Avatar
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    Re: REQUIEM - Heaven from Hell (R. Kemp)

    Quote Originally Posted by trentpmcd
    Hi Ray. I didnít notice any different music (or not much) but I did notice that it seems cleaned up and the rendering is much better. In the contest the instruments (other than the organ) sounded a little synthy while now they seem more realistic.

    This reminds me a lot of something but I canít put my finger on it. Maybe Larry Fastís solo project, Synergy? I have some old Synergy vinyl, but my turntable stopped working years ago so I canít listen to seeÖ.

    Anyway, I like this a lot and I hope it isnít played for its intended purpose any time soon.
    Trent,

    The differences are in the mix and the length of this piece.
    Around 2 minutes was asked for in the challenge but I didnít want anybody running out of church with my coffin.
    I emailed the challenge version to Sean a month ago but I wasnít happy with it then.
    My wife ďisĒ! Deaf in one ear and therefore she can tell me if something doesnít work in mono.
    She thought there was no tune, because the separation I had, was reliant on the stereo image I was listening to. It was just mud in mono. I did struggle to get a clear mix. Even in these past few weeks I have been improving my mixing technique and Iím glad your opinion verifies this.

    This idea came from Mozart although I purposely didnít listen to his while working on mine.
    It should have a choir but Iíve kept it GPO for the moment. I havenít heard of the Synergy project. Most of the music Iíve posted here is not what I would usually listen to, thatís the whole thrill of doing this for me. I really am experimenting.

    My Best

    Ray

  6. #6
    Senior Member rayzalaf's Avatar
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    Re: REQUIEM - Heaven from Hell (R. Kemp)

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew S Phillips
    HI Ray.

    Nice job on balancing an organ with an orchestra. THat's not easy!!! Are you by chance an organist?

    Matt
    Matt,

    Thanks for your opinion on the balancing of this piece. As Iíve said in the earlier reply, I was not happy with it up to yesterday evening when I finalised this mix. I should never say final, you know what happens when you wakeup tomorrow, things sound different. Iím waiting on Audioease Altiverb. Iíll probably redo everything then!

    Iíve playing many grand pipe organs (badly). Some 10 or more years ago I serviced organ blowers and humidifiers in churches, town halls, and universities all over Scotland and the North of England. While running the blower I pulled out a few stops and did some 12 bar blues!!!!
    The choice of instruments are out of the virtual sound studio in my head. I just wish I pull out the tunes I hear half asleep in bed when sitting at my studio desk.

    My Best

    Ray

  7. #7

    Re: REQUIEM - Heaven from Hell (R. Kemp)

    Ray, this is some piece of writing; superbly done, my friend,
    with some daunting technical traps surmounted with accomplished
    ease and ingenuity. I hope you'll consider taking this further,
    too; because there's more than enough here to develop this
    much, much further.

    On the mix, I have no suggestions, in that it sounds quite,
    quite good, to my ears, overall.

    But I would like to suggest consideration of a few other matters.
    Please remember these are things I'd probably look at, and should
    be taken as such -- they aren't necessarily right, wrong, etc.,
    for Ray Kemp.

    First, it may be voiced slightly high. Were it me, I'd experiment
    with pulling the whole score down a whole tone.

    Second, I think I'd work more with the organ voicing in it;
    both with some changing registration and perhaps with a
    registration that is somewhat less reedy, more full-bodied,
    in places.

    Third, I think I might consider use of the piano rather than
    the pizzicato strings. Pizzicato strings in this don't seem to have
    quite enough cutting power (and in real orchestras, in a texture
    like this, the modest dynamics available to pizzicato probably
    would not, as well). I understand that you don't want them
    jumping out and biting -- yet, these are important to the rhythmic
    impetus and forward motion of the work; and reorchestrating
    into piano may possibly be more effective for you.

    This is powerful writing, Ray... and it delights me to hear this
    caliber of work coming from you -- though, I might add, it
    less and less surprises me... lol.

    All my best,



    David
    www.DavidSosnowski.com
    .

  8. #8
    Senior Member rayzalaf's Avatar
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    Re: REQUIEM - Heaven from Hell (R. Kemp)

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser-
    I've been looking forward to hearing this, Ray--Thanks for getting this up online for us.

    I certainly agree with Matthew, that the balance between the pipe organ and orchestra sure seems to work. The organ's timbres are always distinguishable from the strings even when they're sharing the same frequencies. I've had a problem of those elements blending together too much when I've tried something of this nature.
    (rbowser)
    Randy Ė Iím glad you wanted to hear it again.

    The organ eq is boosted around 10kHz and the strings are rolled off there.
    It makes the organ very harsh sounding and that Iím not happy with.
    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser-
    What specifically are you unhappy about in the balance and mix? Are there lines you want to have stand out more? I could certainly hear the nice counter-melodies, the Horns were differentiated, this recording works for me.

    (rbowser)
    Those of us who are interested in mixing and recording techniques spend many hours trying to find the right balance.
    I agree the recording here is much better than the challenge version, and youíre right about us never being totally happy with the end product.
    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser-
    I agree with Trent that this full version is a more successful recording than the one you previously posted, with the orchestra more life-like than before. Is that a matter of more reverb, or did you do more "humanizing" editing, or--? I'm always curious about the work people do on their projects.

    (rbowser)
    This is a more difficult question to answer. I just adjusted the levels and pan position of both the violins and the cellos. Bringing them both a little closer to centre.
    Although I use heavy reverb at the beginning and end of the piece during the organ lead, I reduced the reverb level in between. I followed DPDanís advice on processing four group tracks
    I put the organ in with STRINGS.
    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser-
    One more note--I know this is a requiem--But I keep getting a cold chill, the way you always refer to this as what you want to have played at your funeral! I'm glad you said "...at some considerable time in the future..."--! But Ray, it's So somber, tragic even. It's interesting this is the mood you would like to prevail as you leave your church for the final time.--?

    (rbowser)
    This is where you and I really disagree!
    I donít think itís the least bit somber, for me itís very uplifting!!!
    Tragic! Having my wifeís church enjoying such an upbeat tune as Iím put in the Hearse, I donít think so.
    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser-
    Um---OK, when does my name get added to your copyright notice??---

    (rbowser)
    If I'm not making money from it, neither are you!!!!!!!

    Kind Regards

    Ray

  9. #9

    Re: REQUIEM - Heaven from Hell (R. Kemp)

    Hello again, Ray

    Thanks for the greater detail on what you did with this new, full length version.

    "...upbeat tune..."

    --!!---OOOOokay. When you write something you consider a Dirge, lemme know--it'll probably scare the stuffing out of me!

    I play things back on this computer through standard issue (ie: not-good) little computer speakers. So, it's not exactly a critical listening environment here, but this mix sounds good to me, with any harshness in the organ not being in evidence.

    You did really great with this, Ray.--Now, if you DOOoo make $$ with this...

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)

  10. #10
    Senior Member rayzalaf's Avatar
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    Re: REQUIEM - Heaven from Hell (R. Kemp)

    Quote Originally Posted by etLux
    First, it may be voiced slightly high. Were it me, I'd experiment
    with pulling the whole score down a whole tone.

    David
    www.DavidSosnowski.com
    .
    first things first, you're a star.
    I'll get back to you on the other issues but to quote Homer "Doh!"
    I'd just come off the phone when I read the above and had been discussing pulling Gerry's latest track featured in my page on SoundClick needing to go up a whole tone!

    Cheers

    Ray

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