• Register
  • Help
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11

Topic: Strad (and Gofriller?) feature request for Finale playback

Share/Bookmark
  1. #1

    Strad (and Gofriller?) feature request for Finale playback

    Hello,
    I'm not sure to who or where exactly to route this request, so I figured I would post it here. When using human playback in Finale with the Strad, there is a problem with multi-measured sustained notes. For example, set up a simple 10 measure violin score, and tie a note for the duration of the piece. Sound will go silent around halfway through. It seems as though the actual duration of the patch ends, and with no way to automatically switch bow direction to compensate, we get dead air. When using a sequencer or keyboard controller, this is a non-issue using obvious playback techniques, but Finale apparently does not have the ability to overcome this limitation using human playback.

    It would be nice to find a way to make these sustained notes playable by default in Finale, without having to resort to messy playback specific notation and midi editing, especially with future intrument combos in mind using this technology. I have been in contact with the Finale people about this, and they have directed me back this way - does anybody on the Garritan team see a way that this can be addressed in a future update? Could it be as simple as increasing the duration of the samples for the Finale specific patches?

    Thanks,
    JS

  2. #2

    Re: Strad (and Gofriller?) feature request for Finale playback

    Ever tried to play 10 measures on one bow on a physical violin? Obviously not Of course, a violinist would know, that it is necessary to change bow direction a few times on such a note. Finale can't do this automatically, because it doesn't know exactly how long the samples play. So you have to specify the positions, where bow changes occur.

    If you want it to look right and play right, you have to make it look right in one layer with playback disabled on that note (do this in Speedy Entry's Edit Frame (CTRL click on the measure), and playback right in another, hidden layer. Playback right means dividing the 10 measure note into smaller notes no longer than the samples playing linked by (hidden) sustain markings (Ped & *). You will of course hear the bow changes, just as on a physical violin (well, maybe a bit more).

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Salisbury, UK
    Posts
    312

    Re: Strad (and Gofriller?) feature request for Finale playback

    If you scroll down old threads in the Discussion & Technique section you will find one called 'Note only lasts 7 seconds'. I think this touches on your problem. I remain of the view that the note should be capable of looping smoothly in order to play long sustained notes which occur in the standard repertoire. The opening note, for example, of the Bach Bminor violin sonata is a sustained ten-beat note taken at a slow adagio. An experienced player can manage this without apparent bow changes (although they may be there). The programmer obviously disagrees and 7 seconds is your limit. Pity.

  4. #4

    Re: Strad (and Gofriller?) feature request for Finale playback

    Nickie and Dermod, thanks for the feedback.

    I read through the "note only lasts 7 seconds" thread, and it is pretty evident that this is the cause of the Finale problem. I completely understand the rationale from both points of view, so here is my proposal - add a new keyswitch to enable a looped sustain in the next maintenance release. This will make everybody happy; it will solve confusing playability issues for some people and will complement certain compositions better than using the sustain pedal technique. It will also, beyond a doubt, solve the notation/Finale issue.

    These instruments are wonderful for their playability, but there are many users who want to use them, sometimes even exclusively, with notation software. The Gofriller even has a Finale specific patch - why not allow it to work effortlessly if it is possible?

    Thanks,
    JS

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Paris, France
    Posts
    205

    Re: Strad (and Gofriller?) feature request for Finale playback

    Giorgio and Gary,

    I completely support Aconquija's suggestion to improve the long sustained notes in the Strad and the Gofriller, as shown in well chosen Dermod's example.

    I hope this can be fixed in a near release.
    Thanks!
    Robert

  6. #6

    Re: Strad (and Gofriller?) feature request for Finale playback

    Aconquijia, Nickie, Dermod, Robert,

    What you’re requesting is unfortunately not feasible.

    In fact, while it is true that sustain pp notes can be played for more than seven seconds without a bow change, this does not apply to the higher dynamics. As an example, ff samples usually last only about two seconds before a bow change occurs.

    In the Stradivari and the Gofriller, dynamic changes are obtained by crossfading phase-aligned samples of the same note at various dynamics. These samples need to be of the same length.

    Using all the available material between bow changes, and pasting it with specially devised techniques into a single sustain, I could obtain final samples of approximately seven seconds duration for the higher dynamics. This limit cannot be overcome using the original samples.

    On the other hand, looping phase-aligned samples would be very difficult to implement, given the necessity of using segments of exactly the same length for all dynamic layers.

    Hence, I believe that manual or automatic retriggering of long notes, using the bow change articulation, is by far the most practical solution.

    Sincerely,

    Giorgio

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Paris, France
    Posts
    205

    Re: Strad (and Gofriller?) feature request for Finale playback

    Quote Originally Posted by Giorgio Tommasini
    Hence, I believe that manual or automatic retriggering of long notes, using the bow change articulation, is by far the most practical solution.
    Hi Giorgio,

    I understand... There might be a way to deal with this with HP after all. I will submit this improvement to MakeMusic for a next (maintenance) release so everybody will be happy

    Ciao
    Robert

  8. #8

    Re: Strad (and Gofriller?) feature request for Finale playback

    Merci d'avance, Robert

    Giorgio

  9. #9

    Re: Strad (and Gofriller?) feature request for Finale playback

    Thanks for the help everybody! It all makes sense now. These instruments are amazing, and they are constantly getting better. It's going to be hard waiting for the full quartet!
    JS

  10. #10

    Re: Strad (and Gofriller?) feature request for Finale playback

    For now, can't you just mark a slur (not a tie) across two notes? Wouldn't this activate the proper CC64 data/key retriggering combo needed for a bow change?

Go Back to forum

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •