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Topic: GPO with Harmony Assistant

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  1. #1

    GPO with Harmony Assistant

    Hi everyone,

    What a great site!

    I'm new here and new to GPO. I write my music with the notation program Harmony Assistant and GPO. It is all working well except when it comes to making the volume curve with MIDI Specific a (or b etc.) All of a sudden I can't hear my music...
    Can anyone out there please help me?

    sunbird

  2. #2

    Re: GPO with Harmony Assistant

    if you change the volume for one instrument in a single kontakt player it affects all the instruments coming from that single player. i don't know if this is whats happening to you, but if it is here is how to solve it - check the volume curve for each instrument in a player and make sure none of them are down. if you want to change the volume either give that instrument its own player, or do the volume editing at the end and you've exported each track to audio. hope that helps. good luck.
    -Keith Fuller

    http://keithfullermusic.com
    ---
    iMac Quad i7 * MacBook Pro * Logic Studio 9 * WD 320GB & 1TB Externals@7,200RPM * Presonus Firebox * M-Audio Axiom 25 & Keystation 61 * Rode NT1-A * Epiphone Hollowbody * Fender Amp * KRK Rokit 8's

  3. #3

    Re: GPO with Harmony Assistant

    Hi Keith,

    Thanks very much for answering my question. I tried to seperate the two staffs to two different players, but still there's no sound. It seems that for some reason the player's instrument volume goes down as I try to edit the volume curve... But I will try again and see if I missed something on the way...
    What do you mean by 'do the volume editing at the end'?
    I have visited your site and heard your music! I love it! It is an interesting and powerful combination of gentle and dramatic sounds with great effects. It really suits a movie as it tells a story!
    I would also love to write such music... my style so far is romantic classical and I love to compose for the piano or for a full string orchestra
    Which notation program are you using?

  4. #4

    Re: GPO with Harmony Assistant

    Hello, Sunbird

    I'm not familiar with the Harmony Assitant program you're using. But I'm wondering if you are using GPO through the new KP2 player (big black interface) or the original Kontact player which is rectangular and grey?

    I'm still using the old KP1 player--and you might be also. If so, I'm not understanding Keith's reply unless he's talking about something to do with KP2 which I don't have experience with.

    BUT, if you're using the KP1 player, described above, the volume of a single instrument does Not effect the volumes of all the other instruments loaded in a single instance of the player.

    In that player, above the keyboard, the last box in the lower right of the black information screen, there's an icon that indicates tracks--it looks like a pitch fork. Mouse click that, and you will have a drop down menu. This is where you assign the audio outputs of each instrument. The choices are in stereo pairs, labelled "1/2, 3/4, 5/6" etc, on up to 15/16.

    With each instrument assigned properly to a different audio output, their volume control is completely independent of each other. Usually, you want the instrument in the first slot to be on MIDI channel 1 and output 1/2. The next instrument is on MIDI channel 2 and output 3/4--and so forth.

    However, when I read your post, I had the impression that you were forgetting to use MIDI controller #1 which is used for volume control in GPO. Are you sure you're using that?

    ---My reply is sounding confusing--Sorry if it is. But perhaps if you could answer some of these questions, we can help you out more accurately.

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)

  5. #5

    Re: GPO with Harmony Assistant

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser

    I'm still using the old KP1 player--and you might be also. If so, I'm not understanding Keith's reply unless he's talking about something to do with KP2 which I don't have experience with.
    i mean that in your DAW program, which is what i thought his Harmony Assistant was - but i don't know? i know that in DAWs like Logic and Sonar and stuff like that if you have multiple tracks (each with its own channel) that all have instruments loaded from the same Kontakt Player, that if you adjust the Volume (not a MIDI cc) it does the overall volume for the entire Kontakt Player as opposed to just that one track. If there is a volume cc that i don't know about i'd love for someone to tell me (there very well might be, i'm just kinda dumb). so thats what i meant, sorry if i wasn't too clear.


    Quote Originally Posted by sunbird
    I have visited your site and heard your music! I love it! It is an interesting and powerful combination of gentle and dramatic sounds with great effects. It really suits a movie as it tells a story!
    I would also love to write such music... my style so far is romantic classical and I love to compose for the piano or for a full string orchestra
    Which notation program are you using?
    your words are too kind, i'm sure that once you get this volume thing worked out you will be faaaaar surpassing my music.

    i now own a Mac, but when i had a PC i used the Overture that came with a GPO version i purchased (and before that Scorewriter - both made my Genie-soft, formerly by Cakewalk) to do all my notation. when i was done with that i would export it into Sonar and tweak it all out. that worked alright, but not great - very time consuming and not user friendly. now that i have a Mac i completely use Logic. it has a wonderful notation program and is a very powerful DAW, so i'm able to edit and write in whatever manner i want all in one program.

    and by doing the volume stuff at the end i meant after the piece was completely done and all MIDI cc's were tweaked. then you could bounce all the individual tracks to individual audio files and do the volume editing then - that is the "proper" way, as i have learned in the forum, only because it is easier on RAM, but my MacBook Pro hasn't given me any problems like that so far, so i haven't had the need. it probably would though if i had tons of things loaded, but who knows.

    i hope that you get this volume situation figured out soon so you can begin sharing. good luck.
    -Keith Fuller

    http://keithfullermusic.com
    ---
    iMac Quad i7 * MacBook Pro * Logic Studio 9 * WD 320GB & 1TB Externals@7,200RPM * Presonus Firebox * M-Audio Axiom 25 & Keystation 61 * Rode NT1-A * Epiphone Hollowbody * Fender Amp * KRK Rokit 8's

  6. #6

    Re: GPO with Harmony Assistant

    Hi Randy,

    Thanks for your reply. It certainly helps to hear from several people as each points out something else.
    I use GPO studio v2.0, is that which you meant by KP2? I have just recently purchased GPO so I'm still a newby...
    I used one KP for two instruments, and I used for both MIDI 1. I checked that 'fork' and I saw that both instruments were in 1/2. So I guess that's where my problem is?!?
    I'll do the changes you recommended and will let you know if it came out all right.
    Thanks again!

  7. #7

    Re: GPO with Harmony Assistant

    Hey, Keith--Glad you saw my contribution to this thread and came back to help me out with what you were saying.

    I don't want to confuse Sunbird, but I don't understand the reason for using volume controls inside a DAW the way you explained. You're talking about the volumes in Sonar's console mixer, for instance (I use Sonar)--and that Is MIDI volume, cc7. If you start messing with that, then you are getting this confusing issue of effecting the entire Kontact instance.

    But with Garritan instruments responding to cc1 for volume, one can completely bypass what you're talking about.

    To illustrate---I load a Kontact Player completely with 8 instruments. If the default volumes for the GPO instruments aren't what I need, I make adjustments there in Kontact. I also make sure each instrument is assigned a different audio VSTi track, as I described in my last post here.

    From there, it's a matter of recording the MIDI tracks, using cc1--completely ignoring the MIDI faders in the mixer view--hiding them from my view in fact so they don't clutter up my screen.

    When I've done all the MIDI work I want, including all the volume work, each track is bounced to audio. Then the fine tuning of the project is done in the mixer, working only with audio tracks.

    When I first started using the computer version of MIDI (years of hardware MIDI work before that) one of the first instructions I read when using Cubase LE which came with GPO, was exactly as I'm saying--to NOT use the MIDI faders, because they are programmed for standard spec MIDI synths which GPO isn't.

    And naturally it's nice to have 8 instruments in the Kontact with completley independent volumes which aren't ganged together.--and I understand the new KP2 player holds 16 instruments, but the concept must be the same.

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)

  8. #8

    Re: GPO with Harmony Assistant

    Hello again, Sunbird

    Your new reply came in as I was writing my last one--so now I'm trying to catch up.

    Quote Originally Posted by sunbird
    I use GPO studio v2.0, is that which you meant by KP2?
    No, I know it's confusing, but that isn't the same. You're fine for now. Get up to speed with what you have first.

    Quote Originally Posted by sunbird
    I used one KP for two instruments, and I used for both MIDI 1. I checked that 'fork' and I saw that both instruments were in 1/2. So I guess that's where my problem is?!?
    Well yes! Two-fold problem there--Two instruments are sharing the same MIDI channel, and they're also sharing the same audio output. So naturally, anything you do to one instrument is going to effect the other.

    Each instrument in a project needs to be on its own MIDI channel. When you load instruments into Kontact, it defaults for the first one to be on MIDI channel 1, second on MIDI channel 2 etc.

    Unfortunately, it defaults for all 8 slots to go out of the same audio channel. Glad you found "the fork"--When you fix your instrument assignments, make sure to have the second one go to 3/4.

    Now you'll have two MIDI channels to work with and two independent audio channels. The only way to make things work.

    Now imagine doing big projects where you'll be juggling 64 MIDI channels!---Just give it a little time, soon you'll be doing that!

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)

  9. #9

    Re: GPO with Harmony Assistant

    randy, i know about the cc1 - volume, modulation, whatever. but it isn't totally the same as actual volume. for example, if i want to bring in strings to back up something, i'd probably introduce them as smooth as possible. if i start with my cc1 at 0 and slowly drag is up there is still an ugly jump in my opinion. i just don't think the modulation controller works well for bringing things in smoothly - especially with the strings. there are lots of times where i HAVE to lower the volume even when i have cc1 at 1 - its just way too loud sometimes. so far, its my only beef with Garritan stuff - but i'd imagine its the same with everything,

    but i do see your point about confusing people who are just getting into this. and if you know of any way i can adjust the actual volume setting for individual instruments loaded into one player then please please please let me know - it would be a great help. thanks.
    -Keith Fuller

    http://keithfullermusic.com
    ---
    iMac Quad i7 * MacBook Pro * Logic Studio 9 * WD 320GB & 1TB Externals@7,200RPM * Presonus Firebox * M-Audio Axiom 25 & Keystation 61 * Rode NT1-A * Epiphone Hollowbody * Fender Amp * KRK Rokit 8's

  10. #10

    Re: GPO with Harmony Assistant

    Howdy, Keith

    Well now we know that Sunbird's problem was having two instruments on the same MIDI channel and coming out of the same audio VSTi track. I'm confident that problem is now solved.

    So, back to what you're talking about.--HUmmmm now.

    "...I know about the cc1 - volume, modulation, whatever. but it isn't totally the same as actual volume..."

    Well actually it Is the same as volume control. I understand it also effects the timbre of Garritan instruments, that's why it's the volume control you want to use rather than MIDI sliders which are being controlled by cc7. You don't want an aggressively played note--something that should be Loud, turned down unnaturally to a soft volume because of using the wrong volume control.

    But it's not "modulation." That's the assignment cc1 has in the standard MIDI spec--Garritan re-assigned its data to volume/timbre control. Over and over in the manuals there are phrases which are basically bending over backwards to get people to understand that their old use of cc7 must be replaced with using cc1 in order to get the instruments to sound as intended in their programming.

    "...if i start with my cc1 at 0 and slowly drag is up there is still an ugly jump in my opinion..."

    That is very odd. Are you talking about trying to draw in data in a Piano Roll View, or actually recording it via a keyboard's wheel? I've produced a lot of music with GPO, and use a lowly MK-4902 keyboard which cost me $40--!--and I get perfectly smooth volume control with its wheel. Smooth as silk off a spool.

    And you're saying the volume can be too loud at a value of ONE--?!---Curioser and curioser, as Alice would say. This really does sound like Wonderland stuff, because when I'm working on a project, most anything below a cc1 value of 20 is too low a volume to be of any use.

    I feel strongly that there Is a limit to the sculpting of sound that can be done via MIDI alone. That's why, after an enormous amount of MIDI editing, it's in the final audio mix when I'm dealing only with audio tracks where the super fine tuning can be done. If something is too soft or low at that point--and the balance between tracks always needs adjusting at the audio mixing stage--then it's time to use volume envelopes--Plenty of them. Those envelopes can get as complex as anything else in the project.

    With a combination of the two--MIDI editing and audio editing, I can do a perfectly smooth fade in or out in a few seconds time, besides a spot-on perfect balancing of sound from moment-to-moment throughout a recording.

    "...if you know of any way i can adjust the actual volume setting for individual instruments loaded into one player then please please please let me know - it would be a great help..."

    ?? It's just as I said in my last post. You set the relative volumes of the instruments in the Kontact player, then leave them alone. That's really all there is to it. Forget all of the stuff of trying to also use the MIDI faders in a DAW--it only puts more controllers between you and the output than are needed.

    The volumes you set in the player are maintained inside the project.

    Plenty of cc1--then volume envelopes on the audio files. Gets you everything you need!

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)

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