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Topic: Problems with steinway piano volume in GPO

  1. #1

    Problems with steinway piano volume in GPO

    Hey guys, I'm new here, but I've been lurking around these forums (especially the listening room) for some time now, and I see that there are many really good composers around here. One piece that really stands out for me is Randy Bowser's piano and string piece ( sorry I forgot the name).

    Ok, back to the main topic. How can the volume of the steinway piano be controlled by using finale? I tried the mod wheel, but it doesn't work.. It sounds the same dynamically no matter how high or low I turn the mod wheel..

    So.. Any idea what the problem is?
    PS. I'm not good at computers, so don't use some idiomatic computer phrases while explaining.. Haha.

  2. #2

    Re: Problems with steinway piano volume in GPO

    Hi Nigel and welcome!

    The Steinway's volume, along with other instruments that are struck to be played like timpani and marimbas, is controlled by the velocity of the note rather than the modwheel. I'm not extremely familiar with finale (yet) but if you hunt around in the note properties fields or look at dynamics/human playback setup there should be a way to change it to use the velocity parameter.

    Alternatively if you have a midi keyboard that responds to velocity, you should hear volume changes in the instrument as you record depending on how hard you hit the keys.

    Hope this helps,


  3. #3

    Re: Problems with steinway piano volume in GPO

    Oh.. So it's the velocity..
    Thanks now, everything is fine. Thanks for tyhe help.

  4. #4

    Re: Problems with steinway piano volume in GPO

    I've got that GPO Steinway volume problem too, this time with Sonar. It's really weird because I used exactly the same instruments (the Duo 1 and 2) a couple of days ago and didn't have any issues. Now, in a newly-created .cwp, the playback (not the record) volume has gone mad. Having behaved itself during recording, reacting as prescribed to note velocity and normal pedal commands, Duo 1 suddenly decides on playback to alter its own volume button (on the VSTi mini-Kontakt player) so that it's suddenly right over to the RH side, ie at about +6Db. I'm trying to play & record Duo 2 and can't hear a thing, because Duo 2 (at normal playing volume) is drowned out by Duo 1. I can turn it down via the Kontakt volume button so that it sounds normal again, but as soon as I turn away it whacks itself back up again ! Altering volume info on the MIDI channel is useless: note velocity isn't very loud anyway (usually between about 35 and 60) so it shouldn't be behaving like that; and if I whack down the volume on the VSTi's audio channel then the Duo2 piano is ALSO lower volume and I can't hear it ! The only solution I can think of would be to create 2 instances of the VSTi and put one piano in each, which would give me 2 audio channels to play about with, but it seems (a) excessive and (b) slightly suspect ! Anyone got any bright ideas ? Thanks in advance !

  5. #5

    Re: Problems with steinway piano volume in GPO

    Nigel! I don't get over to this Forum very often, and just happened to look in on your thread to see if I could help.

    Imagine my pleasant surprise when I read that you enjoyed a music post from me. Thank you for saying so! I use piano with orchestra on a regular basis, so I'm not positive which piece it was, but I'm certainly glad to hear you enjoyed it!

    I'm also glad to see you got the info you needed about the Piano.

    Viv--Oh my. I use a version of Sonar, so was hoping I'd figure out what your problem is, but I can't. It sounds like you're saying faders are jumping up/down on their own? That would have to be automation data accidentally recorded--but I'm not positive what you mean, it was a bit unclear.

    You said altering volume data on the MIDI channel is useless--well, certainly, since GPO doesn't respond to cc7 when set up as designed.--I'd recommend always hiding those MIDI tracks in your Console View, since they aren't needed at all--I take it back. Some people do use them, setting the Kontact player accordingly, but I've never understood why--just one more interface between the instrument and its output--not needed.

    Let us know how you're doing.

    Randy B.

  6. #6

    Re: Problems with steinway piano volume in GPO

    Hi Randy - no, it wasn't the faders that were jumping (which would indeed denote some sort of automation issue), but the little Volume button on the mini-Kontakt interface.
    ((I call it "mini-Kontakt" to distinguish it from the full Kontakt player that many people seem to use with GPO/JABB: I have only the mini-version supplied with GPO/JABB and I presume it looks different.))
    When Duo 1 suddenly started to play very loudly, I couldn't think what the problem was - and then I saw the Volume had been whacked up to almost full on playback (having been set on default, ie about half-way, on record). I turned it down again (as you do) and it put itself back up to full when it started to play ! Duo 2, meanwhile, was behaving itself and had the Volume button at a normal level.
    Yesterday I opened that same .cwp file again, thinking there was perhaps a file corruption issue and I would have to rebuild the piece elsewhere, to find that Duos 1 and 2 were both behaving normally. Fingers crossed that this continues. When I had the problems, I did of course reboot/relaunch but the problem persisted... now it's gone again. Mystery.

  7. #7

    Re: Problems with steinway piano volume in GPO

    Hello again, Viv

    The only way the Kontact's volume knob can move like that is via cc7. But the only way it will respond to that control is if on the Options tab of Kontact, you've chosen to activate "Use standard cc7/cc10 volume and pan." Following the instructions and advice I was first given when starting out with GPO, I've always kept that selection Off. And with it Off, that knob never moves--you use a default setting or adjust it as needed.

    I'm rather sure you already know all that, but just covering things for clarity.

    My theory is that you have some cc7 data being transmitted on the same MIDI channel as your Piano 1 from within your project, whether or not it's on the same track. Searching through the Event Lists of all tracks would reveal that data and show which track it's on.


    Randy B.

  8. #8

    Re: Problems with steinway piano volume in GPO

    Hi again Randy -
    Definitely no cc7 data anywhere !
    I didn't select the "standard cc7/cc10" because I thought that with piano GPO and JABB automatically responded differently to pedals and velocity - ie no need to change any settings on the software.
    I think it's more likely that my machine, though wonderful and hard-working (I have to say that in case it's listening), had a bit of a meltdown that day. It's behaved itself ever since.
    Thanks for trying on my behalf, anyway !

  9. #9

    Re: Problems with steinway piano volume in GPO

    Hi, Viv--Thanks for the update. Sounds like you're right, that it was just a temporary "melt down" problem. Computers can be So mysterious sometimes.

    "...I didn't select the "standard cc7/cc10" because I thought that with piano GPO and JABB automatically responded differently to pedals and velocity - ie no need to change any settings on the software..."

    Not to cause confusion, but those two things aren't related--the cc7/cc10 setting and the way GPO and JABB respond to pedals and velocity are completely different issues.

    On the old Kontact players (I think you're still using them, like I am?) you Do need to change the settings under Options in order to switch back and forth between normal sustain and cc sustain--but of course that's a separate parameter from the cc7/cc10 window.

    As I pointed out earlier, the instructions and advice I was first given when starting out with GPO was to keep that cc7/cc10 choice UN-checked, since the Garritan libraries are programmed differently than standard MIDI synths.

    But Nickie has mentioned in various posts that she Does keep this choice checked so she can use the MIDI faders in her DAW. Those faders will respond to MIDI data, hence her choice to use those standard controllers, and it doesn't interfere with GPO's special use of cc1 and cc64.

    I just don't understand what the advantage is of having yet one more set of faders between input and output--Panning and volume can be done on either the VSTi audio faders, or on the audio track faders if one has bounced MIDI to audio.

    ----hmm, I said I don't want to add to confusion, but all this is so sub-topic now--Well, I'll leave it anyway.

    Just glad to hear you're doing OK, Viv, and NIGEL--hope you are too!

    Randy B.

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