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Topic: Mysteriously Appearing Odd Controllers

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  1. #1

    Mysteriously Appearing Odd Controllers

    In working with a piece with the Strad, I noticed for the first time that no matter what controller I'm recording into the track--cc1, cc11, etc--there are Other controllers being added to the track.

    The controllers which are mysteriously appearing are:

    13
    84
    85
    87

    These are controller numbers which are assigned different ways with different software--they aren't permanently assigned to a particular function in the MIDI spec. 13 is used for Reverb paramaters in different ways depending on the reverb. The others are used in totally different ways from program to program.

    I'm thinking they are generated by KP2--but what are they doing?

    I have problems with notes not always sounding for their full length--they'll just suddenly cut out, even with nothing but a single Strad in the project. But when I erase those extra controllers, that problem is reduced--And there's no detrimental effect to anything if I erase those.

    Anyone know what they are?

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)

  2. #2

    Re: Mysteriously Appearing Odd Controllers

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser-
    In working with a piece with the Strad, I noticed for the first time that no matter what controller I'm recording into the track--cc1, cc11, etc--there are Other controllers being added to the track.

    The controllers which are mysteriously appearing are:

    13
    84
    85
    87

    These are controller numbers which are assigned different ways with different software--they aren't permanently assigned to a particular function in the MIDI spec. 13 is used for Reverb paramaters in different ways depending on the reverb. The others are used in totally different ways from program to program.

    I'm thinking they are generated by KP2--but what are they doing?

    I have problems with notes not always sounding for their full length--they'll just suddenly cut out, even with nothing but a single Strad in the project. But when I erase those extra controllers, that problem is reduced--And there's no detrimental effect to anything if I erase those.

    Anyone know what they are?

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)
    I believe that 13 is used for pitch variation on rapid dynamic changes. This is to simulate real behavior of the instrument. For example, if you quickly changed from pp to ff, you would need to increase the bow pressure. This increased pressure would bend the string and affect pitch to a certain extent. 84, 85, 87... I don't know.

    EDIT: I also remember - at one time - there was a bug associated with this behavior modeling. I think it was fixed, but I don't know what update fixed it.

  3. #3

    Re: Mysteriously Appearing Odd Controllers

    Randy,

    As usual, what tfishbein82 reports is entirely correct.

    CC 84, 85, 87 are script-generated controllers affecting ADSR parameters. These CCs, as well as CC13, are created on the fly to get special effects. They should not be either outputted to the otside world, nor recorded on a midi track.

    Under Audio Engine -> Send Midi to outside world -> choose options: make sure that no option is selected.

    Sincerely,

    Giorgio

  4. #4

    Re: Mysteriously Appearing Odd Controllers

    Giorgio,

    Thank you very much for the explanation!

    Following your instructions, for the first time I saw the "Send MIDI to outside world" option in Kontact. The first two options were selected to be "On"--and this is the way the program loaded from the factory. I can see from the names of those options that MIDI data was indeed being generated by the GUI keyboard and script generated ccs were also being sent out and recorded in my sequencer software, Sonar.

    I've unchecked those--Obviously this problem will be gone now.

    But I wonder why these are the factory defaults if they should actually be turned off--And why the options exist at all?

    In any case--Things are fixed, and I thank you!

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)

  5. #5

    Re: Mysteriously Appearing Odd Controllers

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser-
    Giorgio,

    Thank you very much for the explanation!

    Following your instructions, for the first time I saw the "Send MIDI to outside world" option in Kontact. The first two options were selected to be "On"--and this is the way the program loaded from the factory. I can see from the names of those options that MIDI data was indeed being generated by the GUI keyboard and script generated ccs were also being sent out and recorded in my sequencer software, Sonar.

    I've unchecked those--Obviously this problem will be gone now.

    But I wonder why these are the factory defaults if they should actually be turned off--And why the options exist at all?

    In any case--Things are fixed, and I thank you!

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)
    Randy, it is odd that these seem to be your default settings. But I do not believe they are truly the factory defaults. I've never encountered that issue before (using Strad and Gofriller w/Sonar), and I know I've never changed those settings either. I think that in some mysterious (as you said) way, your Kontakt got mucked up. Even though software is supposed to be predictable, weird stuff always seems to happen.

  6. #6

    Re: Mysteriously Appearing Odd Controllers

    Hi, tfishbein82

    Yes, very odd indeed.

    I haven't had The Strad very long, and this Audio Engine tab is something I had never clicked on before getting Giorgio's instructions this morning. Sure enough, those not only Seemed to be my default settings, but they Were my default settings. The first two options were checked to be On. Strange. Who knows?

    Very glad to have been led to that setting though--Because as I understand it, that data is generated during playback, but to have the data Also in my MIDI track was doubling up the data, and choking off notes.

    Anomolous as this was, someone else is bound to have the same thing happen with their new software, maybe this thread will help them out too.

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)

  7. #7

    Re: Mysteriously Appearing Odd Controllers

    Strangely enough when I uncheck everything there is NO SOUND.

    Raymond

  8. #8

    Re: Mysteriously Appearing Odd Controllers

    Raymond--you scared me. Earlier I had changed the settings as Giorgio explained to us, but I didn't have my keyboard and amp turned on, so hadn't really tested it.

    Now I've run a test, and my Strad is sounding out loud and clear, with No options selected in that menu.

    Hope you sort out your issues!

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)

  9. #9

    Re: Mysteriously Appearing Odd Controllers

    Hopefully I did. I set it to "Output to GUI keyboard" and now there is some sound. It can be caused by some Sonar settings, but I am too lazy to sort this out now. You know, I just entered a new level of rendering with GPO, and that is demanding all my time.

    Samples, CC's, ModWheels, Sustains are now a part of my blood, you know.

    Raymond

  10. #10

    Re: Mysteriously Appearing Odd Controllers

    Hi, Raymond

    Hmmmm. That option isn't output To the GUI Keyboard, but From it.

    Giorgio was explaining about those extra MIDI controllers:

    "...They should not be either outputted to the outside world, nor recorded on a midi track..."

    I think something else must be happening in your set up, Ray, causing you to sometimes not hear the Strad, because with all those options turned off, as per Giorgio's instructions, my Strad is playing just fine, as I said earlier--And now those extra controllers aren't being recorded in the Strad's MIDI track.

    I still don't understand why there should be an option to turn those "to the outside world" options on or off, since in order for the Strad to work properly, all those options should be turned off--?

    But obviously if those controllers are recorded in a MIDI track, then, since the Strad generates those controllers on its own during playback--there would be a duplication of controllers. And that's why I was getting so many choked, cut off notes.

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)

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