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Topic: Order Sibelius 5 yet?

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  1. #1

    Order Sibelius 5 yet?

    I received my Sibelius 5 yesterday and have had a lot of trouble with it so far. Even installation was a problem until I phoned for help. Then loading in my old scores which were created in Sibelius 4 gave me endless troubles. Hardly a score would have the right sounds, there were all sorts of wrong and missing sounds. Sibelius Sounds Essentials is supposed to take care of everything but that is not the case. My existing VSTs were not available, playback had stutters, and so on. I am in touch with the technical boys at Sibelius and I'm hoping that they will sort everything out. It may be that my computer was not up to the task but I would have thought that Intel Pentium 4 @ 2 Gig and 1 Gig RAM would be adequate - it certainly was with Sibelius 4, which never gave me any trouble.

    This is disappointing because the new sounds were the only reason I upgraded, hoping to achieve at last the all-in-one program which might make sequencers obsolete. I don't rule that out yet, if my problems get sorted properly. What I am saying is, if you're thinking of ordering, hang on for a bit until I can give you more information.

    Terry Dwyer

  2. #2

    Re: Don't order Sibelius 5 yet!

    Thanks for the info... I didn't know it was shipping yet.

    Are there any non-sound related issues you've had? (formatting, importing/exporting, printing, etc).

    Just curious. I'll be coming from v.3, so I could really use the notation upgrade as well.
    - Jamie Kowalski

    All Hands Music - Kowalski on the web
    The Ear Is Always Correct - Writings on composition

  3. #3

    Re: Don't order Sibelius 5 yet!

    Quote Originally Posted by Skysaw
    Are there any non-sound related issues you've had? (formatting, importing/exporting, printing, etc).
    Not so far. Notation is excellent, other facilities all work. Watch this space.

    Terry

  4. #4

    Re: Don't order Sibelius 5 yet!

    Thanks. Keep us posted!
    - Jamie Kowalski

    All Hands Music - Kowalski on the web
    The Ear Is Always Correct - Writings on composition

  5. #5

    Re: Don't order Sibelius 5 yet!

    Im not a programmer. But the .NET runtime appear not to be very friendly when managing multitrack audio. Im not sure they made an smart decision choosing that language for develop.
    Marcelo Colina

  6. #6

    Re: Don't order Sibelius 5 yet!

    Terry, I'm sorry to hear you've not had a good initial experience with Sibelius 5.

    Regarding VST plug-ins not showing up, you need either to copy the ones you want to appear in Sibelius into C:\Program Files\Sibelius Software\VSTPlugins, or point Sibelius at the folder where your VST plug-ins are currently installed, via the Browse... button in the Audio Engine Options dialog (accessed via Play > Playback Options).

    Stuttering playback could be caused by an inappropriate choice of audio interface or buffer size, again in Audio Engine Options. In the first instance, try increasing the buffer size a bit. If that doesn't help, try choosing a different audio interface (e.g. try a DirectSound one if you're getting no joy from ASIO). Out of interest, what kind of soundcard are you using?

    Missing sounds on playback could be due to various factors, e.g. you may have markings in your score (such as MIDI program changes etc.) that are interfering with what Sibelius is trying to do. I'd be happy to try and follow up on this for you if you find that my colleagues in technical support are unable to help, though I have every confidence that they will.

    And finally, regarding the .NET Framework: only the GUI of the new Mixer window is written in .NET, not the whole of Sibelius, and in any case, our developers (who *are* programmers) have given me no reason to believe that you are likely to experience any performance problems as a result of us using .NET 2.0 for the Mixer or other user interface elements in Sibelius.

    If I can be of any further assistance, feel free to PM me here, or catch me on the main Sibelius chat page at www.sibelius.com, or drop me an email.

    All the best,

    Daniel Spreadbury
    Sibelius Product Manager

  7. #7
    Senior Member rwayland's Avatar
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    Re: Don't order Sibelius 5 yet!

    Quote Originally Posted by dspreadbury



    And finally, regarding the .NET Framework: only the GUI of the new Mixer window is written in .NET, not the whole of Sibelius, and in any case, our developers (who *are* programmers) have given me no reason to believe that you are likely to experience any performance problems as a result of us using .NET 2.0 for the Mixer or other user interface elements in Sibelius.


    Daniel Spreadbury
    Sibelius Product Manager
    Well, the .Net Framework 2.0 gave me a big problem with the demo -- corrupted some files, wiped out some elements of .Net 1.5, completely destabilized my system. The only solution was to recover my drive from my very good backup.

    This was using the demo version. I had wanted to test the sounds, but discovered that they were disabled in the demo version.

    I am now very apprehensive about trying again!

    Richard

  8. #8

    Re: Don't order Sibelius 5 yet!

    Poolman---I really hear your pain in your post. My condolescenes. Hopefully some of the info you've gotten here, not the least of which is the great supportive response from Daniel Spreadbury, Sibelius Product Manager, will help you out.

    But oh man--software upgrades can be a pain can they not?! And scary ones at that. I'm still waiting before taking the KP2 upgrade--still too many freaked out posts in regards to that for my comfort.

    I'm not a user of any notation program, so can't help you out, and can't honestly say I've been through anything quite like you have, since I use Sonar.

    Besides wanting to lend you some sympathy, I also wanted to add a reply to this--You said:

    "...hoping to achieve at last the all-in-one program which might make sequencers obsolete..."

    Being a "sequencer" user, I wish it could be the other way around. DAWs like Sonar already have such sleek, sophisticated programs for making pro quality recordings, wouldn't it be great if the programmers for these kind of programs were motivated enough to bring the notation side of DAWs up to the demands of those wanting/needing great looking printed scores?

    It's a pipe dream I guess. Notation programs keep struggling to come at least bit closer to the level of DAWs in the recording realm--but they are still so primitive in comparison. It would be so spiffy if the people already making the great recording programs could satisfy the needs of those needing pro looking print outs.

    As it is, those who want to construct pieces by inserting notes can do that just as well in software like Sonar, they just can't hand over pro style print outs. They Can generate perfectly acceptable looking vocal scores, lead sheets etc--even plain looking scores that orchestra musicians could use. But besides the quality of the print outs, I think we all understand that DAWs don't have as many tools for placing markings into a score.

    I'm just saying that it would be great if the people already making the best computer recording programs could add the best notation tools also--But I suppose the programmers aren't motivated to do that because the majority of DAW users are more concerned with producing recordings. They're mostly interested in reaching the general public with music, not other musicians with scores. I think it's safe to say the majority of DAW users don't have much need or interest in generating pro looking printed scores. Hence--the lack of development towards better notation.

    Meanwhile, I've noticed that many people using notation programs don't necessarily actually need the ability to make great print outs. I sometimes get the impression that at least some notation users feel that in order to be really be writing music, they are Supposed to be concerned about making scores. I feel that many people like that would have an eye opening experience if they'd just start using the already much more sophisticated DAWs and got down to making Music instead of making dots on staves.

    Obviously there are people who do have a real and constant need for generating scores--But it still appears to me that majority of notation users could be better off using DAWs, making acceptable recordings more easily, having a lot more fun, and still being able to print at least simple scores if the need arises. As I said, they could still make music by hand inserting notes if they wished to, just as easily as in a notation program--but they could much more easily and quickly get more natural sounding results with the direct editing of MIDI data, rather than relying, for instance on a written command to generate a decent Tympani roll--we all know what notation drum rolls sound like--yikes!

    And so forth.

    I don't have an urgent need for great looking printed scores. I know that if my music was to be used in a field I've chosen to work in, it's most likely that a pro score-writer would be hired anyway--it wouldn't matter if I had a great looking score I'd made with Sibelius or Finale. If I had a stage musical, for instance, published by Tams Witmark--they would be using their in-house people to make the published scores, not me.

    But--in theory at least, it could be nice if Sonar and the rest of the audio/MIDI recording developers would go ahead and provide their users with slicker notation capability--on the off chance they ever really need it.

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)

  9. #9

    Lightbulb Re: Don't order Sibelius 5 yet!

    Randy has got a point. I've always thought that Overture was getting the picture that the two biggies (Sibelius and Finale) are missing. Scores that allow you to tweak MIDI in `the background' in a familiar MIDI editing environment. If somehow Overture could get sold to a major DAW shop, DP, Sonar, Cubase, whatever, it would be a major step forward. Almost a have-to-buy type scenario.

    -Kevin
    We are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams …
    24" 2.4 Ghz iMac, OSX 10.4.10, MOTU 828 MKII, 2 Glyph 250 Gig external drives, Logic 9, Finale 2008 GPO, JABB, Strad, Gro, Reason 4, EWQL Storm Drum, Adrenaline, Symphonic Choirs, SO Gold,All Arturia Synths, Many NI Synths, Spectrasonics Synths, KH Strings, VEPro on a Windows 7 4x 2.8 Ghz 12 gig of RAM

  10. #10

    Re: Don't order Sibelius 5 yet!

    rbowser,

    One thing to keep in mind about adding , or improving, the notation capabilities in sequencer programs - Sibelius is now releasing Version 5 and Finale has been around close to 20 years now, and they still don't have all the notational bases covered. Spend some time on the Sibelius Chat page (I say Sibelius because that's the program I own and use) and I think you might be surprised at the incredibly broad spectrum of music that Sibelius is being asked to notate - vocal, instrumental, contemporary, ancient, classical, jazz, commercial, film scores, orchestral, chamber music, etc. I can't see Sonar or anybody else devoting that kind of attention to a feature that is so comparitively infrequently used by the median customer base. That's why I own both Sonar and Sibelius - horses for courses, as they say.

    FWIW, Sonar did send out a survey a few months ago asking how the Notation View was used most often and what upgrades people would like to see. Perhaps you were able to contribute an idea or two. I'm very curious to see what all they come up with next time around. Supposedly, Sonar 6 has a few tweaks, but nothing major. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for Ver.7.
    Paul Baker
    Baker's Jazz And More
    Austin, Texas, USA
    www.bakersjazzandmore.com

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