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Topic: Volume Setting Garritan Instruments for Finale

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  1. #1

    Volume Setting Garritan Instruments for Finale

    I have been experimenting with the Garritan Instruments for Finale in a file I just created. I wanted to try the vocal and instrument combinations. However, nothing I did would increase the almost inaudible volume. I tried to adjust the volume setting in the VST setup. However, once the play button is hit the volume reverts to the default setting.

    Also for those using Finale 2008 have you tried loading samples from the full GPO and the Garritan Instruments for Finale together in the same Kontakt player? Is this possible. I'm not having much luck getting it to work.

    Nickie, UK Michael, QcCowboy anybody? Help?
    Samantha Penigar
    http://www.myspace.com/samanthapenigar

    http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/...p?userid=13306

    Dream it! Then Do it! Good things come to those who work while they wait. [COLOR=purple]Persistence[/COLO

  2. #2

    Re: Volume Setting Garritan Instruments for Finale

    It sounds like Finale keeps defaulting the volume (NOT modulation) of the instruments to low levels. In KP2's Instrument Options, uncheck "Accept standard controllers for Volume and Pan," then set the instrument's volume to what you want (I would prefer to reload the instrument to get it set at its default volume, then uncheck that option).

    My apologies if it's a different scenario; I'm a Finale '07 and full GPO user, so who knows.

  3. #3

    Re: Volume Setting Garritan Instruments for Finale

    Quote Originally Posted by Cerrabore
    In KP2's Instrument Options, uncheck "Accept standard controllers for Volume and Pan,"
    That's not a good idea, if you use Human Playback, since HP uses CC#7 to balance tracks.

  4. #4
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    Re: Volume Setting Garritan Instruments for Finale

    This is the same problem I was trying to correct in my thread Finale2008/KP2. Even trying to use the Finale Mixer only helps a little. I guess I'll just wait for the KP2 update.
    Jerry
    Dayton, Kentucky
    Personally, I'm waiting for caller IQ.

  5. #5

    Re: Volume Setting Garritan Instruments for Finale

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince of Music
    When did HP start using CC#7 for volume balance?! I ALWAYS have CC#7 off for GPO since the instruments are not balanced properly if you have them all at the same level, were as the .nki's as set up load the instrument at what would be considered a proper starting volume. If you have use cc#7 checked then you have to go through at totally rebalance your entire orchestra before you even start.
    Since at least F06. I always balance the ensemble myself. I would never use a one-size-fits-all standard setting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Prince of Music
    Unfortunately as Tom has stated, when the new K2 player came out the moved the use CC#7 setting from a global to a instrument by instrument basis. He has promised this will be reset to it's proper GPO setting in the next update that Gary said is due within a week.
    They will only change the regular GPO/JABB, not the Notation version. Nor should they. I have Tom's word for that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Prince of Music
    Did they totally change HP in Finale08 because it was always set up to use the mod wheel to control all GPO instruments and only used CC#7 for non GPO libraries.
    I think you misunderstood me, Tom. HP uses the modwheel for GPO alright (for volume automation), but CC#7 is used to create overall balance between tracks (solo/accomp - soften basses - soften accomp). At least it used to be that way. I don't know if it still holds in F08.

  6. #6

    Re: Volume Setting Garritan Instruments for Finale

    Quote Originally Posted by Samantha Penigar
    I have been experimenting with the Garritan Instruments for Finale in a file I just created. I wanted to try the vocal and instrument combinations. However, nothing I did would increase the almost inaudible volume. I tried to adjust the volume setting in the VST setup. However, once the play button is hit the volume reverts to the default setting.

    Also for those using Finale 2008 have you tried loading samples from the full GPO and the Garritan Instruments for Finale together in the same Kontakt player? Is this possible. I'm not having much luck getting it to work.

    Nickie, UK Michael, QcCowboy anybody? Help?
    You didn't accidentally select a low "Base value for Instrument Volume" in HP Preferences | Dynamics & Volume, did you? It should be 120 (in F07, probably the same in F08). And "Dynamic Approach for Sustaining Instruments" should be either "Automatic" or "Modulation(CC#1)/Velocity for Attack".

  7. #7

    Re: Volume Setting Garritan Instruments for Finale

    Nickie is correct. We have recommended/included the activation of cc7 in the Notation instruments since we began supporting Finale because it was required for HP and was specifically requested by Makemusic. The only cc7 change in the coming update will be to the Standard instruments, not the Notation. The confusion in KP2 resulted from two things:

    1. Kontakt 2 changed the way it handled cc7 by activating the cc7 checkbox (by default) for all instruments - and I didn't notice. Had I noticed this change in the way Kontakt was handling this option, I would have deactivated the cc7 checkbox in all Standard instruments to maintain consistency with the KP1 version. That has been done for the coming update. In other words: I'm putting it back to the way it was in Kontakt 1. I never intended it otherwise.

    2. In KP1 the cc7 activation was a global setting while in KP2 it is by individual instrument. This is both a boon for flexibility and a bane for convenience. Whatever; it is what it is, and it is a Native Instruments, not a Garritan, decision.

    Anyone who wishes *not* to use cc7 for the Notation instruments can do so by unchecking the cc7 option in each instrument and resaving. This is tedious (I should know - I've done it) but it only needs to be done once unless you change your mind. I would recommend a utility like QuicKeys to drastically speed up the process.

    I hope that clears up the questions regarding the cc7 option and how things will change in the next update. This is essentially what I said in the discussion immediately following the release of the KP2 versions of the libraries.

    Tom

  8. #8

    Re: Volume Setting Garritan Instruments for Finale

    Quote Originally Posted by Samantha Penigar
    I have been experimenting with the Garritan Instruments for Finale in a file I just created. I wanted to try the vocal and instrument combinations. However, nothing I did would increase the almost inaudible volume. I tried to adjust the volume setting in the VST setup. However, once the play button is hit the volume reverts to the default setting.

    Also for those using Finale 2008 have you tried loading samples from the full GPO and the Garritan Instruments for Finale together in the same Kontakt player? Is this possible. I'm not having much luck getting it to work.

    Nickie, UK Michael, QcCowboy anybody? Help?
    Hello Samantha,

    Yes, this is a 'problem' for mixing/balancing in Finale. I don't why this is how it is.

    I asked a similar question in the NI forums. My question involved the full K2 and Sonar but the issues of low volume are the same; you can see this here:

    http://www.native-instruments.com/fo...ad.php?t=51286

    The replies by Quoid and Nickie (yes the same Nickie ) might help you.

    I haven't studied the replies in full here just yet. Off to do that now in the hope I will better understand this issue.
    Michael
    Patience is a virtue, sensitivity is a gift

  9. #9

    Re: Volume Setting Garritan Instruments for Finale

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince of Music
    ..... in the next update that Gary said is due within a week. .....

    Tom
    I missed this announcement. When did Gary promise this?

    Also, do we know what other 'fixes' are included in this update?
    Michael
    Patience is a virtue, sensitivity is a gift

  10. #10

    Re: Volume Setting Garritan Instruments for Finale

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince of Music
    I have ALWAYS had CC#7 turned off in Finale because since all the GPO instruments load in at different levels that makes for an additional HUGE step before I can even start recording.
    So, turn the option off on each instrument and re-save. So long as you overwrite the main notation .nki files they will load with the cc#7 option disabled from then on - no need to configure each time you use the Wizard.
    And since I don't use the standard instruments in Finale, it's kind of a waste to change all the settings in the standard instruments since they arent used in Finale.
    Huh? Sorry, I haven't a clue what you meant by that.

    I kinda wish this had been explained earlier since over and over there have been threads telling people to use the mod wheel and NOT CC#7 to control volume, yet now we're hearing that that isn't the case.
    I've said nothing of the kind. If activated (as in the default for the Notation instruments) cc#7 controls the static volume of the instrument - overriding the volume knob on the instrument interface - establishing the relative volume settings between instruments. Mod wheel controls dynamic, expressive volume/timbre changes as always. Mod wheel and cc#7 are two completely different and independent things and that remains the case no matter what the default setting of this option is.
    If this is now the case can the GPO instrument levels be corrected so you can load up a GPO orchestra and have the instruments load at at least a close to normal level. If all the instruments load at the same dB levels then the instruments are not going to sound CLOSE to what an orchestra sounds like, and Finale is NOT the place to be doing mixing since there are no options for EQ or VST plugins.
    Makemusic wants the static load volume of instruments to be controlled with cc#7 and it was my job to configure things for Finale HP as requested by Makemusic. As I said, if you don't want the instruments to load with this option activated, deactivate it and re-save the instruments.

    It's beginning to sound MORE and MORE like the move to the K2 player was a really poor choice for those of us who us Finale as a composition tool.
    If I were you and having this much difficulty with KP2 I would retreat to KP1. You seemed to have few issues with that older version and you certainly are at liberty to use the old player if you choose. Remember, the only people who *must* use the new KP2 player are the MacIntel users. Everyone else can stay with the old player if they wish.

    So as I understand it now, I either have to personally go through and fix all the notation instruments to work as they did before, or if I wanna use Finale as you are now recommending, I have to somehow go through all the notation instruments and somehow change the default loading volumes? How does one even go about doing this?
    No, you don't need to go near the default load values for volume. Click on the "gear" button in the upper left of the instrument interface. Choose the "Controller" tab and uncheck the "Accept standard controller for volume and pan" box. Save the instrument and overwrite the file. Instruments will thereafter ignore any incoming cc#7 data and will load at the instrument interface knob setting value.
    Cause you surely can't be recommending that every time I set up a Finale score with the setup wizard, I then go through and manual set the volumes in the Finale mixer to get a normalized orchestra?
    Of course not.

    I just have to say, after so many years of being a Finale and Garritan fan, things seem to be going downhill FAST. It's beginning to look like if it wernt for NI's stranglehold over Finale it would be time to move to a different orchestral collection.
    It still sounds to me like retreating to KP1 would probably be the solution that best suits your needs considering how uncomfortable and confusing this KP2 update seems to have been for you.

    Tom

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