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Topic: The new waves of an orchestra

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  1. #1

    The new waves of an orchestra

    Hi.Could we please discuss the future of new orchestra's.The new technoligy.The next step in midi orchestra's? Please throw things out.

    The only library I know of yet is DVZ.What else is coming?
    (These are my words on DVZ to Chris Stone)

    I've wished for something like this to come around but not everybody can afford 5 computers and the program unfortunatly.And I am fed up with pc's so I'm gonna convert to mac. I'm a guy who's been sitting on the fence for some time simply because I don't want to deal with technoligy,I want to make music!

    I haven't bought an expensive orchestra yet because there's no need to spend big money on something when there's "new" technoligy around the corner.

    I wish that your project was a bit more "easy 123" install ready application. Then I wouldn't hesitate for a second! It's a bit sad that young aspiring composers might not buy this because of it's requirements.Some say that dvz doesn't match up with the sample orchestra's they already have, which they think sound better with real legato,vibrato etc. So if they buy dvz they miss out on things.But then again they could use their stuff in dvz. But it's still going to be a big price to pay.

    So what's your thoughts on this new era?

    Audun Jemtland

  2. #2

    Re: The new waves of an orchestra

    as far as I know DVZ was created for making fast and painless mockups, this is the main (and maybe only) strength of DVZ imho. Plus you don't pay for guys who transcript your mockup, because it is automated.

    that said, I don't think it's library for composers who use sample orchestras for actual score, it is different segment.

    Well programmed EWSQL or Vienna DO sound way better than DVZ, BUT, on DVZ you can make pretty nice mockup with speed which is impossible with "standard" libraries.

    so, as you can see, it has quite different purpose and that's why comparing it "sound-wise" to other libraries is like comparing, say, aircraft to submarine - both have engines but are moving in different environments

  3. #3

    Re: The new waves of an orchestra

    anything coming up that are fast AND realistic? Someone said(rumor) that hans zimmer is coming with something..?
    What IS coming?

    I don't have track.could you tell me titles of upcoming orchestras? Are there demos?web sites.

  4. #4

    Re: The new waves of an orchestra

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince of Music
    Interestingly enough I listened to Synful for the first time yesterday in a LONG time. It sounded ALOT better than I remembered, and if I was reading right it's gonna do alot of the same stuff that DVZ is going to do (auto divisi, etc.), plus I keep hearing rumors of a new version very soon. After hearing the demo stuff from WIVI, I gotta think that for fast mockups these things are gonna be the way to go, then maybe one of the other libraries will set up a way to then drop in thier sounds without TOO much hassle.

    Tom
    I must agree, Synful is quiet underestimated, I mentioned it before and can mention it once more - just listen to those folk demos, those are as realistic quality and performance-wise as far you can imagine. But OVERALL sonic quality of Synful (apart of its superp performance quality) is quite below middle. I hope that will change in version 3.

    As to WIVI, performance and sonic quality of it is quite convincing, but lack of real good sounding orchestral demos (yet) makes me think that it's quite HARD to achieve that type of sound in WIVI (and BLEND it with other libs), ie. you need a lot of knowledge (and practice) in electroacoustics (it's simulation of instrument combined with environment after all).

    Maybe they will come out with pre-programmed presets, that would be nice for most of us I guess.

    Think about this way -

    do you prefer to have that good ol' sound that mixes nicely of sampled libraries, with effort of programming (ie using your skill that most of us already have),

    OR do you want this programming process out of your way and actually COMPOSE. In this case, you WILL have a problem with getting outta WIVI sound you are after. And this CAN take a LOT MORE TIME than programming old libraries. At present state, they don't have even 1 single demo that actually shows that you CAN do that at all. Remember we are talking about sound, not performance.

    But who knows, maybe it's future and we all need to study

  5. #5

    Re: The new waves of an orchestra

    I hope, in the future, there comes out new libraries with ever their own sound, from many different developers...!

    If I only already imagine that it would only give already soon only one orchestralibrary which uses all… . That is a horror dream! Very poor!
    "Music is the shorthand of emotion." Leo Tolstoy

    Listen to me, tuning my triangle http://www.box.net/shared/ae822u6r3i

  6. #6

    Re: The new waves of an orchestra

    Synful v3 should be interesting, especially after the impressive French Horn demo floating around a couple of months ago.
    The new string sections, complete with all playing modes (Staccato/spiccato/sul ponticello etc) should be out any time now.
    Although having said that, the first projected release date for the new Synful was just over a year ago, so anything could happen!


    That demo, for those who missed it:
    http://www.~~~~~~~~~~.net/forum/view...ghlight=synful
    _________________________
    ------www.wilx.co.uk---------

  7. #7

    Re: The new waves of an orchestra

    Hello GunJinn. I'm not following the point you're making in your last post. Do you mind explaining it again, as I'm very curious as to what you mean exactly. I appologize for missing it!!

    For example, you say
    Quote Originally Posted by GunJinn
    OR do you want this programming process out of your way and actually COMPOSE. In this case, you WILL have a problem with getting outta WIVI sound you are after. And this CAN take a LOT MORE TIME than programming old libraries. At present state, they don't have even 1 single demo that actually shows that you CAN do that at all. Remember we are talking about sound, not performance."
    Do you mind giving some specifics or trying to explain what point you're making in a different way? Thanks, and sorry again for not following.

  8. #8

    Re: The new waves of an orchestra

    Quote Originally Posted by JT3_Jon
    Hello GunJinn. I'm not following the point you're making in your last post. Do you mind explaining it again, as I'm very curious as to what you mean exactly. I appologize for missing it!!

    For example, you say Do you mind giving some specifics or trying to explain what point you're making in a different way? Thanks, and sorry again for not following.
    sure I will try, sorry my English is not as good as I would like it to be so here we go:

    1. Sample Libraries.

    a) sound

    each sample library has its unique sound, for example EWSQL has this epic, lush character, Vienna was recorder in special-built "reverbless" studio so many ppl consider it more versatile mixing-wise, in same time harder to use. SAM Brass sound has very strong character, recorded with 3 pos mic, and blends very nice with other libs.

    Here, in sample libraries, you do not need any special knowledge to achieve sound you are after - just some practice in using eq and convolution reverb. Not very hard most will say.

    Speed of this process - fast.

    b) emulating performance techniques

    here we've got some hassle. playing techniques are recorded as different layers in same sample triggered by keys/velocity (best option) or in different samples (worst option). So, after playing your "basic" track you must divide it to as many tracks as many samples you need to program your performance. You can end up with like 10-15 tracks for just 1 string section for example, which means, well, a lot of work. And I do not need to mention that creative process in this case usually ends when you start programming. Because it's very hard to change anything after that.

    2. WIVI, and Synful (to some extent)

    a) sound

    These are algorithms, modelling/emulating real instruments. In very root of it you have very nasty, if not ugly, sound. In a way, quite similar sound you hear playing real instrument in a room with no ambience at all. Which means there is no character, just raw sound which requires further processing. In this case, you have to have knowledge and skills in electroacoustics, ie how external conditions apply to original sound. It's not just some random playing with eq and convolution, there is a lot more work required, and if you want to get top quality sound that blends well, you really need to know how to do it. Here is, for example, a list of settings you need to think of in only WIVI itself (I do not mention external convolution/eqs/compressors which would make this list a lot longer) :
    1. direct sound (volume, low-pass, high-pass, stereo width, ear angle, angle depth, falloff),
    2. early reflections (volume, low-pass, high-pass, stereo width, ear angle, angle depth, falloff),
    3. late reverb (volume, low-pass, high-pass, stereo width, time, pre delay, damping, ear angle, angle depth, falloff),
    4. tone timbre (amount, formant shift, pressure shift, MIDI CC shift, CC, compression),
    5. breath noise (amount, pitch shift, pressure shift),
    6. chiff noise (amount, pitch shift, pressure shift),
    7. key/valve noise (amount, pitch shift, velocity shift, random level, random pitch),
    8. lip buzz (amount, depth, speed),
    9. acoustic settings (direct sound, early reflections, late reverb, falloff, angle depth, L/R amplitude separation, L/R phase separation)

    you got the picture. so, you can have a problem with mixing this sound, you have problem with achieving character. There are some tutorials alright, but, as I've said, there are not a single demo yet that actually shows that someone figured out how to do it. No "hollywood" sound yet. No "big" sound yet.

    In Synful you have a different problem, but there's no point to discuss it imho, as version 3 is coming soon so other conditions will apply I guess.

    b) emulating performance techniques

    Here you have all creative process under your fingertips. Staccato? just play staccato. Slurs? Just play slurs (or leartn how to play them and then play). Dynamics? you can go from ppp to fff, any length you want, just use modwheel. Realistic legato? just play legato. Out of tune, shaking, lots of other stuff that adds realism - you have it all, really, and it's INCREDIBLY easy to use.


    But then, remember 2a)



    I hope that I explained my point this time, sorry again for inconvenience.

  9. #9

    Re: The new waves of an orchestra

    Well explained GunJinn!! You're very articulate
    Except synful,wivi and dvz... what else is coming?

    Anyway.here is the answer back from dvz's chris stone

    The samples that I made are, of course, samples of live musicians just
    like any other sample library. However, the demo is purely a sample
    library demo – no added live musicians.(Upcoming demo on audioimpressions.com within a week I think he's talking about)

    The program (Realtime Strings) will cost $3500 US and it requires a
    minimum of two PC computers or two Mac Pro computers. However, with only
    two computers you can only play half the strings at once. If you want to
    play all the strings at once then you need three computers. Our
    computers that we sell cost less than $2000 US each. Yes, it is an
    expensive system, but then again so is a Ferrari. That’s why a Toyota
    Corona can’t drive 400 Km per hour!

    Our system installs from a single USB drive (no DVDs) and it
    automatically maps the samplers and maps your MIDI configuration upon
    launch. Yes, (1,2,3)

    Up until now people have only heard our BETA version of our samples, so
    they may be right about what they heard as not being quite there yet.
    Our new demo will be on our Web in less than a week – let’s see what
    they say then.

    Keep in mind that some people hate Ferrari's because they don't have
    back seats - I expect that some people won't like DVZ for similar
    reasons. DVZ is designed for speed just like a Ferrari. DVZ is built for
    composers that have to write music by the fastest means possible. It's
    not made for musicologists, it's made for people who make a living by
    main-stream music production output.

    Thanks,

    CHRIS STONE

  10. #10

    Re: The new waves of an orchestra

    Quote Originally Posted by Audun_Jemtland
    Hi.Could we please discuss the future of new orchestra's.What else is coming?
    We will probably see that somebody is smart enough to provide an online recording studio with a live orchestra in it somewhere in sibiria or somewhere. Remember my words.
    All your strings belong to me!
    www.strings-on-demand.com

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