• Register
  • Help
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11

Topic: Listening room demo submissions

  1. #1

    Exclamation Listening room composition submissions

    Hi all,

    I hope I'm posting this in the right place.

    I've only been a member of this community for a brief time and I'm enjoying it very much. In reading some of the posts and responses to compisition submissions in the listening room, I have noticed that there seems to be a bigger "response" in replies for JABB, organ and more "classical" type compositions; not film type scores. I was wondering if the preference to the majority of the members here at Northern Sounds is aimed more towards the afore mentioned types of compisitions? The reason I ask is, I seem to be missing the point of submitting compisitions of many many hours of hard work for such little response and, I'd like to know if perhaps my time and efforts will be better served in composing more classical type compositions or even perhaps some JABB? It is somewhat disheartening to spend so much time working on something that doesn't seem to appeal to other members or that they do not find it noteworthy enough to post responses to, or merely read the "title" and skip over it because the title sounds a bit odd, or the title gives the "impression" of something the listener thinks they might not like.

    Another member previously stated that we (composers/musicians) might use a "submission" type form stating clearly what we as composers are looking for on feedback per each compisition that is submitted. However, I fail to see what impact that will hold, to help the composer better their skills, if the type of composition submitted is not one that the members of the community seem to enjoy the most or just skip over.

    This is not a complaint by any means, just merely an observation in which I feel should be addressed (or clarified) so other members, including myself, can best use their time, hard work, and composing skills more creatively, to feel a sense of accomplishment for their completed compositions.

    Using myself as an example, although I am a beginner at composing, I do work hard, as we all do, at putting together our scores. I have submitted four (4) compisitions thus far and seem to only get, at most, 10 responses per submission, (There are many more with alot less) while others seem to have a considerable ammount more. My question is, how can we, as composers, especially beginners, expect to gain knowledge and more enthusisiam(sp?) for something we love, when say, a senior member (or others) recieves upwards of 60+ replies opposed to 10 or less? I honestly feel that there are so many talented composers on this forum and I have heard many many brilliant compositions, as I am sure all of you have; many of which, were beginners as I am. Should we as composers adapt or adjust our compositions to preference tastes of members? Should members have a more broader appreciation for all compositions submitted? I personally feel there should be a happy medium, (Northern Sounds) where all members can share, learn, grow, and appreciate the wonderful gifts of such vast, diversified, talented individuals.

    Are there any other members who feel this, or am I just nitpicking on something trivial?

    Your thoughts and comments on this will be greatly appreciated as I am at a delima on which direction to go from this point. Should I focus my composing skills and hard work on music that members wish to hear more of, so I can become a better composer?


    Jaker "Shaver"
    Last edited by shaver; 07-16-2007 at 08:27 PM. Reason: Forgot to title

  2. #2

    Re: Listening room demo submissions

    Mmmm ... I think the subject has come up in various forms before. The competition challenge #13 thread for example has had 1,800 views (can that be right?) but only 38 votes. I think what we see here is not peculiar to this forum. Internet wide, 90% or more of people are spectators/listeners rather than contributors to the discussion. Sorry but that doesn't really answer your question!
    Vista / Sonar Home Studio 6 / GPO 2d edition / Melodyne Uno 1.8

  3. #3
    Senior Member rwayland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    California Redwoods

    Re: Listening room demo submissions

    Quote Originally Posted by shaver
    Hi all, . . .

    Your thoughts and comments on this will be greatly appreciated as I am at a delima on which direction to go from this point. Should I focus my composing skills and hard work on music that members wish to hear more of, so I can become a better composer?


    Jaker "Shaver"
    The first thing to do is to compose music that you like to compose, which is what I do. I get a decent number of views, but not a lot of comment. I am pleased with the comments that I get, and surprised that often I read comments that surprise me, such as "I have been listening to all of your works for a long time." More comments are always welcome, but it must always be considered that there is a very large number of submissions and choosing which to listen to can be difficult. Also, consider that a substantial number of submissions are not original compositions, but arrangements, and some are not original arrangements, but submitted to spotlight gpo.

    There are also other sites where you can submit scores for critique, but similar considerations would also apply.

    Final consideration: some of us, such as myself, have a slow internet connection, with no possibilities of improvement. So downloading rather than streaming becomes essential, and that can be very time consuming.


  4. #4
    Senior Member rpearl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005

    Re: Listening room demo submissions

    Well, to use my recent post as an example: posted on July 12, 245 views, 51 listens (some could have directed from another site, but I doubt more than one or two), and 12 comments. That's a 4 to 1 ratio of listens to comments, which I could interpret as 75% of the listeners REALLY didn't like what they heard - or they just had nothing to say. And there is a 20 to 1 ratio of views to responses. Is that typical? Hard to say. But, I take the attitude of appreciating the responses/comments/suggestions, and not worrying about the others. It can be discouraging, but sometimes we don't know what to say, don't like it that much, or are too lazy to write something. Combination of all three?

    Please don't give up - the numbers may not be encouraging, but the ones who do comment are worth it. At least I hope so...
    Ron Pearl





  5. #5

    Re: Listening room demo submissions

    Hello, Jaker "Shaver"

    You know what I think is pretty great? That you sat down to write this, letting us know how you feel. It's so much better when people can come out with what's on their minds, rather than becoming passive-aggressive in their posts, cloaking their anger with bitter humor - all those indirect expressions of feelings. Those can really end up backfiring on a person. So, good one on you for writing this.

    I hear what you're saying, and can recall when I first joined Northern Sounds only this past November, that my earliest music postings in The Listening Room would only get four responses. That happened a number of times. Then some momentum built, and more people started tuning in. But even to this day, I'm a little surprised that people can still say "Oh wow, I somehow missed the earlier posts from your musical." It's easy to have the wrong impression that just because we put something up on the board, that everybody is going to notice it. Trust me, they Aren't going to notice every post. That's one point.

    But the main thing I want to say, is that from your post, I really feel you have an attitude about what's happening here which isn't helping you out at all. You fairly straight-forwardly say that you're composing music for the purpose of getting feedback here. Let me help you see how this is a skewed perspective.

    You have to do your compositions whatever reasons that honestly motivate you. Maybe you want to stretch and try writing in genres you haven't worked in yet--Maybe you have a personal goal to compose a symphony, or you've been hired to write a jingle, or for your church--whatever it is. But the Last reason that you should be writing music, in my opinion, is for the purpose of posting it here. Putting up music here is simply a fun way of sharing our projects and developing camaraderie with other writers.

    Take a look at your motivations for writing. I understand you want feedback, especially because you're new at composing, and are a bit unsure about your abilities. But replies posted to what you put up aren't going to give you more confidence really, you can only get that from believing in yourself and what you do. What goes on here in the Listening Room is just icing on the cake. It's a venue for having some music heard, but it really can't be The reason you're writing--Why would you want that to be your motivation?

    Music we could classify in the broad category of "serious" does seem to garner the most attention here. But when it comes to the responses, you must remember that all replies say more about the person writing the response than the piece of music itself. Some people here are ready to call any big, lush orchestral work a product of "genius" because that's those people's strongest preference in music--and they probably also have a need to ingratiate themselves to others here, for whatever reason.

    But every kind of music has an audience, no matter what the size of that audience is, and I've found that virtually every style of music you can name has fans amongst the members of this Forum. So worrying about what style will please people also needs to be the absolute Last concern you should have. What does any of that have to do with the music You want to write?

    "...I seem to be missing the point of submitting compositions of many many hours of hard work for such little response and, I'd like to know if perhaps my time and efforts will be better served in composing more classical type compositions or even perhaps some JABB?..."

    Please look as objectively as you can at that quote from you. Why should you want to please the people here so much--to the point that you'd attempt writing in other genres you theorize will be more pleasing? As I said--that is Not the mind set from which great music or great Anything can be created.

    "...It is somewhat disheartening to spend so much time working on something that doesn't seem to appeal to other members..."

    OK, I believe you when you say it's been disheartening--But I'm going to be the cliche broken record and ask--Why should you be wanting to please? I can't think of a single accomplishment worth mentioning which was brought about from a desire to Please anyone except the person who did the creating. If other people happen to benefit or enjoy what you've created--great, but that's a side benefit from the joy of throwing yourself into your art.

    You ask how people can "...feel a sense of accomplishment for their completed compositions..."

    The answer: By completing a work, playing it back, maybe a few weeks later so it's fresh again, and admiring your own accomplishment. If you can find nothing to like in it, then it wasn't your honest work. If you Do love what you did--That's your answer--Feeling love for your own work is accompanied by the sense of accomplishment you want to feel. I really wish you'd repeat that last sentence several times to yourself.

    "...Should we as composers adapt or adjust our compositions to preference tastes of members?.."

    Horrors, no!

    "...Should members have a more broader appreciation for all compositions submitted?..."

    Sure, that would be pleasant. But how do you propose to dictate to people how they should start appreciating more pieces simply because they've been posted?

    I suppose more people could do what I do--I make it a point to listen to everything put up here, and it's extremely rare for me to not post a reply. I think I'm an especially good audience. It's hard for me not to find Something to appreciate in most every effort people submit. But that's me. Everyone else is doing the best they can, and I think on the whole this is a Very active, involved group of people.

    "...I personally feel there should be a happy medium, (Northern Sounds) where all members can share, learn, grow, and appreciate the wonderful gifts of such vast, diversified, talented individuals..."

    Wonderful vision. And then there's imperfect reality. You'd be much happier if you could gracefully accept Things As They Are.

    "...I am at a dilemma on which direction to go from this point. Should I focus my composing skills and hard work on music that members wish to hear more of, so I can become a better composer?..."

    There's the crux of your flawed thinking on this whole matter. Focusing on work you think a larger group of people here will listen to is probably the best way to Not become a better composer.

    Jaker, I'm not alone in having enjoyed the music you've already shared with us. I totally agree that it's nice to get positive feedback--But as soon as that feedback becomes your motivation for writing--you're doomed.

    Close the door on your studio, stay in there, and start getting excited and happy with your own creations. The seemingly miraculous will happen after that--People will be able to hear when you are presenting music which has an original voice. People instinctively respond to music from the heart and from the gut. They won't be able to guide you ahead of time what it is they're going to like - but they can't deny it when they hear IT--the real deal, the genuine article.

    And the Real Deal is never produced by trying to please anyone but yourself.

    Randy B.

  6. #6

    Re: Listening room demo submissions

    Howdy Jaker,

    Yes I know the feeling sometimes the works you put years of effort in generate no feedback at all and ouch, that hurts.

    Some tricks that people use...

    - Use a catchy thread title
    - If it's a long composition, post parts of it separately (not on the same day as it's against the rules)
    - if it's a work in progress, post it at various stages
    - comment occasionally how friends in "real life" reacted to your song and other song-related trivia (is it going to be performed, on the radio etc) to "bump" your thread.

    Cheers Matt

  7. #7

    Re: Listening room demo submissions

    How does the view counter work? If someone visits the thread more than once - does the view counter increase? If yes, then the view counter is poor count of the number of unique visitors. (By the way, how does one see this view counter).

    Here is my experience:

    I do not expept anyone to comment on my works. I do like to see keep track of how many times my piece is downloaded - but it is just a game.

    There is just too much music out there and too many styles. My friends and families do not like, understand or appreciate my music and are too busy with a host of other interests to even listen/acknowledge. And I do not blame them. I write for myself but I do like to participate in this forum and I appreciate being able to (however infrequently) leave feedback/comments and to receive same. The Garritan forum is the best for this.

    I have an acquaintance who is a professional trombonist, director of the local fine arts camp, music enthusiast: a piece is successful if even just one person listens to it (and that includes the composer!).

    Also, you will find that even on this forum, personalities gravitate to others with similar interests/styles just like in "real" life.

    Good luck, I hope you keep posting (music and otherwise),

  8. #8

    Thumbs up Re: Listening room demo submissions

    Randy and others have posted some wise words and I hope you find them helpful. I'll add my two cents (or spin depending on how you look at it ).

    As others have said, don't try to compose what you think others will want to hear. Compose what is in your heart. If you do that you can't go wrong.

    Although it is nice to get lots of feedback, post with the expectation that you will get no feedback. If you think you need more feedback, ask specific questions to persons who have responded. For instance, if you ask what people think of specific items, (Do the violins sound screachy? What can you recommend to improve upon the run at 1:43?) you might end up with the kind of feedback you are looking for to improve.

    There is a great deal to be gleaned from comments to other peoples music.

    If you do get some constructive criticism, accept it with grace and see if what you are being told is an area you could improve in.

    This forum is the most friendly and productive music forum on the Internet. Give it time, you will find yourself learning a great deal.


    P.S. Have you gone through the orchestration tutorials yet? They are terrific!
    We are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams …
    24" 2.4 Ghz iMac, OSX 10.4.10, MOTU 828 MKII, 2 Glyph 250 Gig external drives, Logic 9, Finale 2008 GPO, JABB, Strad, Gro, Reason 4, EWQL Storm Drum, Adrenaline, Symphonic Choirs, SO Gold,All Arturia Synths, Many NI Synths, Spectrasonics Synths, KH Strings, VEPro on a Windows 7 4x 2.8 Ghz 12 gig of RAM

  9. #9

    Re: Listening room demo submissions

    I'd like to thank everyone for your thoughts and feedback on this. You all have touched on some really keen observations and I greatly appreciate it. I guess I should clarify myself a bit better, it seems perhaps my choice of wording was not the way I had intended it to sound in some areas of my post as I re-read it and everyone's replies.

    True, I am looking for "feedback" from other members so I can get a feel that my compositions are meaningful to others as they listen. It really isn't the fact that I'm composing just to post it here and base my work and accomplishments on members reactions. My intentions are merely to get the feedback as a stepping stone so to speak, so if there are areas of my work that others may feel needs some "fine tuning" I can use those as a learning experince to help grow. That was my reasoning behind the whole meaning of my post. We all can grow self esteem and confidence in our accomplishments but, it does help with input because what we "think" sounds great, another "ear" can help perhaps point out not faults, but, observations that we may have overlooked or were not aware of.

    That would be the downfall of mankind if every artist, musician, architect etc. did their works based on "public" opinion; after all, wouldn't that loose the individuality? Of course it would. So, forgive me if my wording mislead any of you to think or believe I had the wrong attitude here and that was my only reason for posting my compisitions here on the forum; that was not my intention at all.

    As a beginning composer, yes, feedback is vitally important to me as I would think it be to anyone, albeit author, cook, carpenter etc. I compose what appeals to me, as a musician, and I love doing that. After reading all of your post over several times, I can see where many of you are coming from and, perhaps I did have the wrong impression of the listening room. That of course stemming from my own naivety because I am still "green" to the "presenting my own music to the world" so to speak.

    But, again, thank you for your thoughts and opinions on this; they have really helped. If I came across with an ill attitude towards this forum, any of the members, and especially, Northern Sounds, then please accept my appologies as that was most definately NOT my intention.

    Jaker "Shaver"

  10. #10

    Re: Listening room demo submissions

    Hello again, Jaker

    I'm jumping RIght in here again because just now I read this from you:

    "...If I came across with an ill attitude towards this forum...then please accept my apologies as that was most definitely NOT my intention...."

    Jaker my man! I've read the entire thread, and I don't see ANyone suggesting that you should feel the need to apologize! Good heavens - When I was talking about a less-than-helpful attitude about what The Listening Room is all about, I meant that totally in reference to You--that You do yourself a disservice if you think in terms of writing music to please anyone. I wasn't saying that you were doing US any kind of disservice.

    Nobody was suggesting that you have a "bad attitude" about being a member here. OK? To reiterate - the advice was that you not over inflate the importance or Meaning of The Listening Room. It's really a nice, casual setting to share music and talk about music. That's saying a lot, but it doesn't make it some kind of anvil where music is forged, and where the number of replies on a thread is a reflection of a given piece's actual merit.

    Before getting alarmed over that new post of yours--I had come here to add some other things that might be helpful:

    --1) I'm of the opinion that any and All feedback must always be taken with caution, no matter how "expert" the person is giving you the feedback. That's of paramount importance.

    --2) Play your music for people in your life. Sitting in the same room with others who are hearing your music is a Much better source of authentic feedback than you can get from long distance, like we do here. Even if your Real Life listeners don't say much, if anything about your music, if you are alert to their reactions, you can garner a Huge amount of comment just from the way they behave while listening. When I feel I'm ready to have other people hear what I've been working on, all I need to do is tune in and become sensitive to their body language. I can instantly sense when they're captivated, when they're getting bored, when they're confused.

    I'm in the mood to pass on one more piece of advice: Don't try to be "great." Just write music. Other people can have their opinions about how Great or Not Great your music is. They can have their opinions about if it's Art or not. Just Do What You Do.

    Randy B.

Go Back to forum


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts