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Topic: Piano Reverb / String Reverb

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  1. #1

    Piano Reverb / String Reverb

    Hi Guys

    I have read through posts in the forum on Reverb/ ALtiverb and I know that typically it is personal choice and preference for setting reverb to instruments.

    However, I was wondering, if you are not a sound engineer or producer, how would you know when you have got something good going with reverb.

    I am playing with Altiverb / and Garritan Ambience to see what I can figure out.

    Is there typically and "standard' REVERB setting that most producers, engineers or composers would use for PIANO.

    The same question goes for Strings.

    Let me just say I understand that it all depends on how you want your instrument to sound. Convulsion, etc, etc,.

    But is there certain settings, High Cut, Low Cut, Web, Dry etc, etc, that would be standard or good vir a nice PIANO sound.

    I dont know how many have Altiverb. If Altiverb is to complicated, is it possible to give some tips with Garritan Ambience.

    Can someone please give some tips for PIANO and Strings ?

    If possible - if not just point me in the right direction.

    Thanks as always for great replies and tons of help !

    EMPNEO



    "‘The heights by men reached and kept were not attained by sudden flight,
    but they, while their companions slept, were toiling upward in the night
    .’ Henry Wadsworth Longfellow."



  2. #2

    Re: Piano Reverb / String Reverb

    Quote Originally Posted by Empneo
    Is there typically and "standard' REVERB setting that most producers, engineers or composers would use for PIANO.
    Depends on the piano you use. For the time being I use The Grand2 model1 from Steinberg with a given setting (my ears told me). For other sampled pianos this can be very very different. Other things are:

    1. is the piano used in a chamber setting?
    2. is the piano used in a recital setting (in a concerthall)?
    3. is the piano used in a piano concerto?
    In a chamber setting use very little reverb and damp the higher frequencies very little, because it must sound as if you were the pianist.

    In a recital setting in a concerthall, give it a bit more reverb, damp the high frequencies quite a lot (and then I mean freq's beyond 4900 Hz), also lower the force of the lower freq's a bit, they tend to overwhelm the higher freqs. A piano has its own reverb, you know: the sustain pedal. So be careful to give it too much reverb. EARS!!!!!!!

    In a pianoconcerto is more difficult, you have to trust your ears and I can't give you any clues... but the main thing is that you listen to a lot of piano concertos on CD and then I mean a LOT. Watch out when they are recorded. The earlier ones tend to be a bit too warm.... the later in time recordings have more dynamics. It comes down to the overall mix, what is the role of the piano in that concerto........

    Garritan ambience for only piano isn't good enough. It colours the sound too much.
    When you still use it, mould the result a bit with an equalizer, before or after.
    You know, the Piano is the most difficult instrument to render. So spend hours and hours of amending, LISTENING to recent recordings, ..... until you are satisfied.

    You are asking for the FINAL REVERB SETTING. There isn't any. Nor there is a setting for a mix of dry and wet. When you listen to various recrodings, you will notice that those "mastering engineers" all used different mixes. You have to chose your own and be warned, it takes time!! Thinking you are ready, just go out for a long walk, read a novel, come back the day after and listen again..... is it still good?

    Sorry, but these are my thoughts about this,
    and strings....... can't give you any advice. It all depends on: how do you want them to sound (taking into consideration that you don't demand the impossible, beyond the nature of the instrument).

    Raymond




  3. #3

    Re: Piano Reverb / String Reverb

    Quote Originally Posted by Empneo
    Hi Guys

    I am playing with Altiverb / and Garritan Ambience to see what I can figure out.

    Is there typically and "standard' REVERB setting that most producers, engineers or composers would use for PIANO.

    But is there certain settings, High Cut, Low Cut, Web, Dry etc, etc, that would be standard or good vir a nice PIANO sound.

    Can someone please give some tips for PIANO and Strings ?

    If possible - if not just point me in the right direction.

    Thanks as always for great replies and tons of help !

    EMPNEO



    Hi Empneo. When dealing with plugins, the best aproach to start learning how to deal with them, is to try the PRESETS. A preset is a pre-programmed setting, that comes from factory, made by the plugin maker.
    I dont have Altiverb, but if you look in the Garritan Ambience plugin, (you are using sonar, istn?) above of it, you have a combo box (press the down arrow) and you will see the diffrent preset names. If i correctly remember, one of them is called "Piano Room" or so. Try it, try the other presets. Choose what you like more, and then, start playing with the knobs, until you ear feel comfortable.
    Here is a link that explains what mean each knob:
    http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/...p/t-28540.html

    Try search the forum, you will find plenty of discussion about reverb.
    Here you have a tutorial for mixing with GPO, that will help you when dealing with Reverb, just scroll down the page to found the info about it:
    http://www.garritan.com/tutorial/AudioMixing.htm


    Additionaly, be aware that there exist many free Reverbs that are very nice to use. I like one called "DaSample GlaceVerb". The presets are good for start, and many times, i dont tweak them.
    Marcelo Colina

  4. #4

    Re: Piano Reverb / String Reverb

    I would say this is largely a personal taste issue unless you are trying to emulate something you've already heard. You've recieved good advice so far in this thread, especially Raymond's suggestion about leaving it for a while and coming back later to see if you still like it and marce's statement about presets; the latter is important because the designer of a plug will usually tailor the presets to highlight the plugin's strengths and also will usually have "standard" settings to serve as a base for further tweaking.
    It's important to learn how the settings of the reverb will affect the sound ie the damping of high freq and the accumulation of lows etc.
    I'm not trying to be cocky with this link, but there are many many tutorials available which all have tips to guide you along the way
    http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=using+reverb&meta=
    As marce mentioned Glaceverb is a nice freebie and I've also had good results with Classic Delay from Kjaerhaus (all of the their free classic series are incredible imo)
    http://www.kjaerhusaudio.com/download.php
    (free ones are down the page a bit)
    Reverb seems to be a very personal thing, so it will be hard to get a consensus from people who listen to your work however you can certainly narrow it down if everyone says "too much" or "too little".
    If pro is the opposite of con lets look beyond this....the opposite of congress must be progress...

  5. #5

    Re: Piano Reverb / String Reverb

    Damping should not to be confused with EQ. It is the ability to adjust the reverb time of a certain frequency band.

    For instance,
    if you have a reverb Impulse Response that sounds really nice but it makes things sound a little too bassy (boomy, tubby) then it would be a good idea to use the damping section of your reverb as Altiverb has, and lower the "low" knob a little, in fact, lower it as far as it will go. Listen to how it affects the sound, then put it where it suits your taste.

    Altiverb has damping controls, low mid and high and between these three knobs is a knob labeled "cross" short for crossover point (frequency or pitch). If this knob is set to 300hz, that means that the low knob will control frequencies from 1hz up to 300hz. It also means that the mid freq knob will control damping of frequencies starting at 300 hz. and up through the crossover point that is set with the crossover knob between the mid and high knob.

    Just some clarification about damping and how it controls specific frequency ranges of the reverb time, and that damping has nothing to do with EQ.
    EQ, short for equalize (to keep frequencies equal or not)

    Dan

  6. #6

    Re: Piano Reverb / String Reverb

    Quote Originally Posted by DPDAN
    Damping should not to be confused with EQ. It is the ability to adjust the reverb time of a certain frequency band.

    For instance,
    if you have a reverb Impulse Response that sounds really nice but it makes things sound a little too bassy (boomy, tubby) then it would be a good idea to use the damping section of your reverb as Altiverb has, and lower the "low" knob a little, in fact, lower it as far as it will go. Listen to how it affects the sound, then put it where it suits your taste.

    Altiverb has damping controls, low mid and high and between these three knobs is a knob labeled "cross" short for crossover point (frequency or pitch). If this knob is set to 300hz, that means that the low knob will lower the reverb time of all frequencies below 300 hz. It also means that the mid freq knob will control damping of frequencies starting at 300 hz. and go up to the freq. set with the cross knob between the mid and high knob.

    Just some clarification about damping and how it controls specific frequency ranges of the reverb time, and that damping has nothing to do with EQ.
    EQ, short for equalize (to keep frequencies equal or not)

    Dan
    THANKS DAN, TAHNKS EVERYBODY THAT WROTE BACK!
    THIS IS A GREAT GREAT HELP !
    What I did was to gather some songs from different Piano Players that I like, and I tried to recreate at best what I heard. I would listen to the piano track and then
    set my reverb to get it to sound like the track. This kinda did it for me, for now !

    I am happy with what I heard so far. Thanks everyone for helping a NEWBIE! Hopefully soon I will be able to post a mp3 of what I have done so far.

    YOU ARE ALL AWESOME TEACHERS !!
    O THIS IS SO MUCH FUN !!!!!!!!

    Thanks
    "‘The heights by men reached and kept were not attained by sudden flight,
    but they, while their companions slept, were toiling upward in the night
    .’ Henry Wadsworth Longfellow."



  7. #7

    Re: Piano Reverb / String Reverb

    Here's a little damping quicktime movie that I just made of what I was talking about.

    Also, this is a great little program that Jerry Wickham told me about.
    It is awesome for Windows PC users to view Quicktime (.mov) movies.

    http://www.videolan.org/vlc/

    Dan

  8. #8
    Senior Member LHong's Avatar
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    Re: Piano Reverb / String Reverb

    Thanks Dan,
    Great contribution! We’ve learned a lot from you, especially on the Audio-Mixing tutorial, the effort that you put, a must read material IMO!

    Long

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