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Topic: WIVI Brass questions - need to know in a hurry

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  1. #1

    WIVI Brass questions - need to know in a hurry

    I've been working on several projects recently which has forced me to buy just about every brass library out (except Big Band-just a working musician here!) I can't believe I hadn't run into this before...maybe it hadn't been MacIntel compatible when i was looking. Anyway, I am currently tracking an entire musical theater score for a touring show, and many of the sounds in this library would be really helpful. (I LOVE the demos.) I need to be done in about a month and am spending long days trying to get finished, so although I tried to do a quick scan of related posts, please forgive me if the answers to these questions have been posted already.

    1. Has anyone used this with notation programs? I read a couple of posts saying it was possible, and that some people had gotten by without a ton of editing, but for brass lines that are usually staccato hits, runs, and chords (not really orchestral or expressive), does it play well out of the box? Is it more like JABB which needs a lot of editing to sound musical? How does it compare to Kick ~~~ Brass or First Call Horns?

    2. Am I correct in saying the VI has built in room impulses you can control? I am reading a lot of people are using Altiverb with it - are the impulses not great or too memory intensive?

    3. To do the score for this show I am using a ton of different libraries in Kontakt. I have a Macbook Pro with 3GB of memory and an external hard drive with my samples on it. I am mainly using Kick ~~~ Brass, First Call Horns, and Screaming Trumpet for my brass, but for my recording purposes I will need to do the tracks in one take, meaning the whole orchestra of samples will be accessed at once. How taxing is this program on the processor, and how well does the MacIntel compatibility work? If I am playing 3 trumpets and three trombones on WIVI with a full orchestra (over 1.4 GB of samples), am I likely to have problems? (I don't need it to work perfectly-the score will be recorded, but I will need it to be able to get through songs without cracks and pops.)

    4. Is it possible to load the samples into Kontakt, or does it need the included player?

    5. Does it have a steep learning curve?

    6. How many different instruments can you load in at once, and are there limits as to how many outputs you can use, or how many instruments can be set to one output?

    As I said, if I weren't in a hurry I'd do more research, but some of these tracks need to be done in a couple of weeks, so I need to know right away if this is something that might be helpful to me. Any thoughts or opinions you have would be helpful. (And if anyone from the company reads this, I STRONGLY second the sax library!)

    THANKS!

  2. #2

    Re: WIVI Brass questions - need to know in a hurry

    Being a WIVI user i would suggest that you download the free demo and check out how it works for you.
    Havent tried it with notation programms but one thing i can tell you that the key thing for WIVI is the realtime modulation that happens when you apply things like breathcontrol.
    That literally breathes life into the sounds.
    I actually went out and bought a Yamaha BC3 breathcontroller just to get the most out of the plug and it was definetly worth it.
    There are no samples involved everything is calculated in realtime which makes the sound of the instruments so liquid.
    Of course you need to create all the articulations in realtime like grace notes, falls, rips and sforzandos etc. which is a pretty natural thing for any musician to do anyway.
    And not having to wait forever for gigabytes of samples to load is another big advantage of WIVI.
    Filling up the stage with brassplayers takes just a couple of clicks and seconds.
    I am reviewing BBB right now and sofar its pretty much the exact opposite of WIVI in that it takes forever to load, is supercomplicated to setup and brings my computer down to its knees after loading 2-3 instruments.
    WIVI on the other hand works like a charme.
    I can concentrate totally on the music and not worry about all those technical aspects and waste time optimizing keyswitches etc.
    So learning this software is also very easy compared to samplebased products with a gazillon of keyswitches to memorize.

    best
    Hans

  3. #3

    Re: WIVI Brass questions - need to know in a hurry

    regarding the reverb-it sounds ok but there is an anechoic setting that renders bonedry audio that you can use with external impulse responses.
    Compared to samples that always have some room color attached to them this method seems to produce a much more uncoloured reverb.

  4. #4

    Re: WIVI Brass questions - need to know in a hurry

    Quote Originally Posted by Hans Scheffler
    Being a WIVI user i would suggest that you download the free demo and check out how it works for you.

    Of course you need to create all the articulations in realtime like grace notes, falls, rips and sforzandos etc. which is a pretty natural thing for any musician to do anyway.
    And not having to wait forever for gigabytes of samples to load is another big advantage of WIVI.
    Filling up the stage with brassplayers takes just a couple of clicks and seconds.
    I am reviewing BBB right now and sofar its pretty much the exact opposite of WIVI in that it takes forever to load, is supercomplicated to setup and brings my computer down to its knees after loading 2-3 instruments.
    WIVI on the other hand works like a charme.
    I can concentrate totally on the music and not worry about all those technical aspects and waste time optimizing keyswitches etc.
    So learning this software is also very easy compared to samplebased products with a gazillon of keyswitches to memorize.

    best
    Hans
    FYI- I'm on a MAc quad 4 gb ram w/ Digital Performer and find Broadway Big Band a breeze to work with. I also own Wivi. It's great but fulfills a different function.

    Broadway Big Band does take a bit to load no doubt.And ,depending on the host daw, can be a challeng to learn the workflow. In the end thoug- once learned it's just so easy.

    the samples shine over WIVI for pop and Jazz. The key switches require a short learning curve and many of the instruments share the same keyswitches. AND if you have plenty of ram there should be no reason only two instruments bring your computers"to it's knees". Besides- Halion has an update coming out soon that will help memory management.I have 4 gigs of memory and I can load 5 legato instruments,bass and drums. And this NOT on an intel Mac. Just a MAc power pc quad.

    To me- it's by far more important to have a library sound great for the task at hand. I wouldn't buy a sample product because it was easy to use.. However, Wivi is a spectacular program and remarkably easy to use and really shines in a lot of situations. Including contemporary music.
    But of ALL the brass libraries out- Broadway Big Band is heads and above evrything out there for Pop and Jazz. To be clear- I'm sure it's fine as well for some orchestral work and of course Broadway or show music.

    Sorry to go off topic.But I believ BBB is being mischaracterized here. And honestly , though they are horns, they really are two different libraries that shouldnt be compared to each other or at the very least, I wouldnt attach to much importance to comparing the two.

    But in the end.as usual, it's great to have both products in the tool box. They are both revolutionary.

  5. #5

    Re: WIVI Brass questions - need to know in a hurry

    1.
    I wouldn't want to give any guarantees on how WIVI integrates with different notation programs, as it was ultimately designed to be sequenced, using a CC to control the dynamics. I'm sorry I cannot be of more help in this case, I simply don't know enough about different notation programs to do so. Your notation program needs to support VST or AU, however, since there's no standalone version of WIVI.

    Staccatos, runs, chords etc. shouldn't be a problem to do out-of-the-box. You can use any instruments you want in a polyphony, and set some simple rules to tell different instruments what voices to play in chords, if you prefer controlling several instruments from the same channel using chords. This means you can also combine different instruments in your chords, having the Tuba play the lowest note, trombones play another note, doubled by horns etc.

    2.
    The player has a built-in reverb, but it's a traditional reverb and not a convolution reverb (to give more flexibility and lower CPU usage). The internal reverb is good for a lot of people, but convolution reverbs have some nice properties which makes a high convolution external reverb an attractive alternative, especially if you want more room coloration/bass in the mix. But if you're going to play the instruments in live speakers in a closed environment, the room will add a lot of coloration so it might get muddy/boomy if you use a convolution reverb. In that case it might actually serve you better to use one of the internal reverb presets instead.

    3.
    Intel Mac compatibility shouldn't be a problem at all, as this software is developed after Apple's transision to Intel. The software was ported from Windows, and Intel Macs were used for development, meaning we only had to take special actions to maintain PPC compatibility, as Intel Mac compatibility came with the Windows version.

    Don't worry about the RAM usage, expect less than 5 MB per additional instrument. You can expect a WIVI instrument to use significantly less CPU than a stereo sampled instrument with release samples and an acceptable polyphony, because there's no sound overlap in WIVI. The CPU load is constant while playing, and neglectable when not playing, so it doesn't matter if you play fast, slow, dynamic changes, etc. If you have the Trial Edition, you can see what the CPU usage is when only the reverb is running. I'd expect 3 trombones + 3 trumpets to roughly double that value when all of them are playing (If you have 3% CPU usage without instruments, expect about 6% when all of them are playing, including the reverb).

    4.
    You cannot load WIVI instruments into Kontakt. They depend on their own player.

    5.
    I'm not the best person to answer the question about how easy WIVI is to work with, but from what I've heard from others, it's very easy to get the concept and start working with it, but there are also a lot of advanced features if you want to go further and experiment with instrument behavior and the environment settings. The advanced settings can be fairly intimidating at first, but it's important to realize that everything is setup for you to begin with, so you only need to use those parameters if you're unhappy with the default behavior of WIVI.

    6.
    There's no limit on the number of instruments that can be loaded. The output ports/audio routing is a bit different than what you're used to. All instruments are acoustically divided into three layers: direct sound, early reflection and late reverb. There are three output ports, so that you can, if you want to, route these layers to different ports. If you want to have the instruments routed to separate ports to add a different type of reverb for each of them, you need to open several WIVI instances. But if you're using external reverbs anyways, you can choose to turn off the internal reverb and the layers you're not using, and that will lower the CPU usage by the separate instances.

    I hope this answers your questions.

  6. #6

    Re: WIVI Brass questions - need to know in a hurry

    Quote Originally Posted by Hans Scheffler
    Being a WIVI user i would suggest that you download the free demo and check out how it works for you.
    Havent tried it with notation programms but one thing i can tell you that the key thing for WIVI is the realtime modulation that happens when you apply things like breathcontrol.
    That literally breathes life into the sounds.
    I actually went out and bought a Yamaha BC3 breathcontroller just to get the most out of the plug and it was definetly worth it.
    There are no samples involved everything is calculated in realtime which makes the sound of the instruments so liquid.
    Of course you need to create all the articulations in realtime like grace notes, falls, rips and sforzandos etc. which is a pretty natural thing for any musician to do anyway.
    And not having to wait forever for gigabytes of samples to load is another big advantage of WIVI.
    Filling up the stage with brassplayers takes just a couple of clicks and seconds.
    I am reviewing BBB right now and sofar its pretty much the exact opposite of WIVI in that it takes forever to load, is supercomplicated to setup and brings my computer down to its knees after loading 2-3 instruments.
    WIVI on the other hand works like a charme.
    I can concentrate totally on the music and not worry about all those technical aspects and waste time optimizing keyswitches etc.
    So learning this software is also very easy compared to samplebased products with a gazillon of keyswitches to memorize.

    best
    Hans
    All true Hans. I just wished I loved the way it sounds but I don't. It just does not sound as real to me as good samples.
    Composer, Logic Certified Trainer, Level 2,
    author of "Going Pro with Logic Pro 9."

    www.jayasher.com

  7. #7

    Re: WIVI Brass questions - need to know in a hurry

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashermusic
    All true Hans. I just wished I loved the way it sounds but I don't. It just does not sound as real to me as good samples.
    maybe- but the part about BBB is certainly not true -unless you dont have enough ram, own Logic and are a republican.

    Seriously- On Digital Performer BBB is painless and rocks.. NOTHING complicated about it unless you aren't used to thinking, This isnt the first time Logic has made things complicated. To be fair- I've often considered Logic but the overwhelming opinions on the Logic learning curve has kept me away.

    WIVI is very strong in the expressive category.

  8. #8

    Re: WIVI Brass questions - need to know in a hurry

    I am a Logic user and i do have plenty of RAM but im neither a republican nor do i have problems thinking.

    I just find playing with a breathcontroller more intuitiv than doing the keyswitchwalk with my left hand.
    I just mentioned BBB as the exact opposite of how i work with WIVI.
    No doubt the BBB samples sound great-its the player that gives me problems.
    When i bought the first Halion Player library a couple of years ago (Scarbee VKC) it was nothing but a disaster in terms of usability and i was waiting for an update that would fix the issues for almost a year before i gave up and only when the library was rereleased in the Kontakt format i could finally use it. Happy ever since!
    2 years later i get the BBB for review and guess what-all the HP probs are still there and so is the promise for fixes in the next update.
    I wish Fablesounds would have taken the extra step and wrote their own player like VSL. That one works absolutely glitchfree on my system.

  9. #9

    Re: WIVI Brass questions - need to know in a hurry

    Quote Originally Posted by Hans Scheffler
    I am a Logic user and i do have plenty of RAM but im neither a republican nor do i have problems thinking.

    I just find playing with a breathcontroller more intuitiv than doing the keyswitchwalk with my left hand.
    I just mentioned BBB as the exact opposite of how i work with WIVI.
    I was just teasin' w/ the thinking comment.

    However- W/regard to BBB and breath control. Breath control isn't used for triggering articulations so I'm not sure why you are comparing the two.

    Aslo- since I'm using 4 gigs of ram and loading up a lot of legato instruments, it would seem logically, that it isn't BBB or halion that is causing the problem. I've heard of Halion problems but for the most part I have not encountered any- It does take a while to load but thats no big deal. HAlion is no Kontakt-I'll give you that- but as a dock for the samples,I dont see a problem. All the real midi work is done in the background software, Broadway Performer.

  10. #10

    Re: WIVI Brass questions - need to know in a hurry

    Wallander, I would appreciate if you'd think about writing a soundset file for Sibelius 5. Sib5 is able to play back sounds with cc1 as dynamic information so it shouldn't sound too awkward, although it's clear that the breath controller would win hands down. But for quick composing and later refining it would be great. All the mute changes would be handled automatically by Sibelius then as well.

    The guys from Sibelius seem to be very helpful to developers wanting to create soundset files.

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