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Topic: Newbie

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  1. #1

    Newbie

    Hi!

    I'm new to this forum & other things as well - if there is a better forum for my questions, please let me know. Anyway, here goes...

    I produce pre-recorded scores for musical productions. A group has to get permission from the copyright holder to use a pre-recorded score and then I can provide it.

    I've been sequencing midi for about 15 years now. I started off with a kurzweil Mark 10 piano and then connected it to my computer with Cakewalk. I now have quite a few sound modules (roland, emu, yamaha, kurzweil) hooked into my mixer.

    I think I can get better and more realistic sounds going with software samplers. Any opinions on where to start? Can software samplers work together with sound modules from a common sequencer?

    There's no hurry on this - I'm gathering info

    Thanks!

  2. #2

    Re: Newbie

    Orchestral? Budget?

  3. #3

    Re: Newbie

    Hello, verneaux, you definitely need to listen to Randy's musical accompaniments in the listening room. http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/...ad.php?t=54826 and many more examples. All done with Sonar and sample libraries I believe.
    Vista / Sonar Home Studio 6 / GPO 2d edition / Melodyne Uno 1.8

  4. #4

    Re: Newbie

    Hi, Verneaux

    Quote Originally Posted by verneaux
    I produce pre-recorded scores for musical productions. A group has to get permission from the copyright holder to use a pre-recorded score and then I can provide it.
    Under some very specific circumstances, I've also provided "virtual orchestra" recordings for theatre groups. But the quote from you I've pulled out is the first and foremost crux of the situation.

    There actually is no sanction given for what you're talking about. Many musicians across the country routinely make recordings for community theatre musical productions, but they are actually infringing on copyright, and could get into serious trouble doing so.

    I've done tracks for public domain works, such as the Gilbert and Sullivan operettas, and a few times I've done tracks for Broadway shows--but only after talking with publishers in New York, begging, and getting special permission. The advice I've gotten several times is to simply not do it--and certainly to never do it without arranging for this special permission.

    Our local theatre has been threatened to be shut down on several occassions now, because proper permission wasn't granted. The penalites are very stiff--like a $5,000 fine and rights to any of the publishers' musicals to be granted to the theatre for a period of 5 years! These measures have been avoided, but only after a lot of panic and a lot of hassle.

    Some publishers have been providing their own MIDI versions of some of their properties, and of course they charge an extra rental fee for those materials. But the official position of the publishers is that no other independent musicians are allowed to create their own tracks. This is part of the contract theatres sign which has clauses about not using any kind of information retrieval system to copy or record the copyrighted material.

    So - make sure you don't get yourself in a precarious situation!

    As for the technical questions:

    Quote Originally Posted by verneaux
    I think I can get better and more realistic sounds going with software samplers. Any opinions on where to start? Can software samplers work together with sound modules from a common sequencer?
    You're right that using a good sample library would be the best core sound source for your tracks. And I don't think you could possibly do better than to use GPO, Garritan Personal Orchestra.

    And yes, certainly, software samplers work together very well with hardware sound modules. That's exactly what I do with my work--combine GPO, Jazz and Big Band (also from Garritan) and various hardware and soft synths.

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)

  5. #5

    Re: Newbie

    You're right that using a good sample library would be the best core sound source for your tracks. And I don't think you could possibly do better than to use GPO, Garritan Personal Orchestra.
    Unless Verneaux has little or no budget, the above seems like pretty unsound advice to me.

  6. #6

    Re: Newbie

    Hi, Marcussen

    I'm not sure what your replies mean. The auto-mail had this text from you:

    "...I think I missed something, or perhaps misunderstood you. In what can't he do better than GPO?..."

    Not sure what your last sentence means, sorry. But I'm just saying that I think GPO would be great for the work he's wanting to do for the theatre group.

    Apparently you deleted your reply though, and replaced it with this:

    "...Unless Verneaux has little or no budget, the above seems like pretty unsound advice to me..."

    I guess you mean you don't care for GPO. I think that's what you mean?

    But in any case, I'm just passing on to Verneaux my advice about being cautious doing tracks for musicals, and also saying that in my opinion he would do well to add GPO to the bank of synths he listed.

    Naturally, he'll get different advice from each person who replies.

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)

  7. #7

    Re: Newbie

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser-
    Hi, Marcussen

    I'm not sure what your replies mean. The auto-mail had this text from you:

    "...I think I missed something, or perhaps misunderstood you. In what can't he do better than GPO?..."

    Not sure what your last sentence means, sorry. But I'm just saying that I think GPO would be great for the work he's wanting to do for the theatre group.

    Apparently you deleted your reply though, and replaced it with this:

    "...Unless Verneaux has little or no budget, the above seems like pretty unsound advice to me..."

    I guess you mean you don't care for GPO. I think that's what you mean?

    But in any case, I'm just passing on to Verneaux my advice about being cautious doing tracks for musicals, and also saying that in my opinion he would do well to add GPO to the bank of synths he listed.

    Naturally, he'll get different advice from each person who replies.

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)
    Hi Randy. Yes, I edited my post after re-reading yours. It became clear to me what you were saying, and that I wasn't misunderstanding anything

    And dang... another slam on GPO... I'm always amased how much people put down GPO when it's one of the easiest libraries to get an acceptable sound from. Though yeah... if you have 14,000 and LOTS and LOTS of time to do each song... go for one of the big libraries.
    Another slam on GPO? Not really, but I do object when someone advises a "newbie" that good orchestral sounds will benefit them, and they can't do better than GPO. Excuse me, but that's not something you want to pass on as fact to someone who is new to orchestral sampling. Just like it's unhelpful giving the impression that you need $14.000 to get something better than GPO... Come on! Are we here to help, or here to move GPO copies?

    I understand that GPO has a large following, and it may be a fine product in it's range. But selling it as the top of the pop seems a little unbalanced to me. GPO may be a great choice for Verneaux based on his requirements, and skills - but we don't know that.

    So Verneaux - in order to give you some proper advice we need to know your budget, realism requirements, how long you intend to spend on getting a realistic result, and musical skills (i.e. basic or high-level understanding of orchestral music).

  8. #8

    Smile Re: Newbie

    In reply to rbowser, I mentioned that we get permission from the copyright holder to use a recorded score. I know we're in a kind of a grey area here, but we do talk to the publishing house and are careful to follow their rules and suggestions.

    I'm not looking to break the bank here so I'd like to stay under 5000 dollars. I'm not sure what path to go down regarding software - I want something that will run the samples I want but it would be nice if it were flexible enough to run other samples as well.

    I have one computer right now that I'm using to run Sonar 6 producer. It connects via USB to a 8 port midi bank that I connect to my sound modules. My computer does not have a very sophisticated sound card. Do I need to simply upgrade my sound card and run Sonar and the software sampler from the same computer or do I need a second computer with a compliant sound card that will be dedicated to the sampler?

    Thanks for all the attention so far!

  9. #9

    Re: Newbie

    Hello again, verneaux!

    Thanks for more info - You're using an excellent, top-of-the-line DAW, Sonar 6 Producer, so that's a great start.

    You asked about your sound card - Is the USB interface you're talking about an audio/MIDI interface? It probably is, in which case it actually becomes in effect your sound-card-if it has the audio outs you need. With that inline, and the proper routing set up, you would be bypassing the factory card on your computer.

    You indicated wanting to use a combination of several synths and soft/synths/samplers - You can do all that from inside Sonar, not restricting yourself to a single Sampler which may limit your choice of sound libraries. Just have an instance of each sampler you want to use inside each song project.

    There'll be a limit, of course, to how much your computer will be able to drive in real-time, depending on its RAM and other specs.

    Many people insist on having music be triggered live for circumstances like you're talking about, but a very carefully planned recording can work very well and has the advantage of having more sophisticated mixing and mastering tools available for the sound output.

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)

  10. #10

    Re: Newbie

    Hi again!

    My USB is an 8X8 Midisport from Midiman (had to go home at lunch to check out the brand). It has midi out & in for eight ports but does not have any audio capability.

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