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Topic: Thinking of full crossgrade! Vista 64bit+Kontact+Cubase. Scary!

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  1. #1

    Thinking of full crossgrade! Vista 64bit+Kontakt+Cubase. Scary!

    Hey everyone,

    I've been out of the loop for a while so I'm sorry for all these questions but there is a fair amount to cover.

    My current setup is P4 3.0ghz, 2gb ram, 3 hard drives (software, samples, audio) running Cubase sx 2.2, Gigastudio 3, Scope 4.xx with creamware soundcards. Win XP Pro.

    I'm thinking of dumping gigastudio and replacing it with kontakt, then porting everything to my new pc (software/samples only) which is a core duo 6600 and hopefully getting quad core 6600 (2.4ghz x 4) in the future. Running Windows Vista 64bit home premium. I'm thinking of getting kontact basically because I want to get quite a few east west libraries. Although I own a fair amount of giga libraries I'm hoping to just buy crossgrades for them, so it's all good. How much luck will I have running kontakt, cubase sx 2.2 in vista 64bit with a quad core cpu? Then on top of that, what about the libraries that come with there own kompakt player, do those work in vista 64bit?

    Does the VSL legato tool or any other legato tool for other libraries work inside kontakt? I have always hated the gigastudio legato tool. Is it possible to run all the midi channels in cubase with kontakt as a plugin, then running the vst audio effects over the top all within the one channel? Or are you limited to kontakt audio effects only? I really want to run everything in real time. With my previous setup I've never been able to run my final mixes in realtime. I had to always bounce down and then mix. Which is a major pain if you want to add another instrument after you are finished.

    I know we had all these disscusions years ago about everyone using multiable pcs, but I really like to keep everything in the one pc. So is this possible with the latest pc hardware out currently? Surely a quad core cpu with something like 8gig of ram would be enough to run say 16-32 channels in real time with a few vst plugins on each?

    I'm just thinking of all this stuff at the one time as I try and think of ways to get everything I want over to my new pc. I'm sure I've missed a few things and i'm sorry if some questions are noobish. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

    Thanks,
    Peter

  2. #2

    Re: Thinking of full crossgrade! Vista 64bit+Kontakt+Cubase. Scary!

    I'll do this easy for you as I've pretty much done exactly what you are planning to do.

    My current setup is P4 3.0ghz, 2gb ram, 3 hard drives (software, samples, audio) running Cubase sx 2.2, Gigastudio 3, Scope 4.xx with creamware soundcards. Win XP Pro.
    I've had exactly the same setup except that my P4 was 2.8 ghz, I used Gigasampler back in the day and have used Kontakt since then and I went straight from Cubase SX1 to SX3 and now Cubase 4. I have now ditched the Creamwares but they were fun for some years.

    hopefully getting quad core 6600 (2.4ghz x 4)
    I'm using one of those.
    Running Windows Vista 64bit home premium.
    And that's my OS.

    How much luck will I have running kontakt, cubase sx 2.2 in vista 64bit with a quad core cpu? Then on top of that, what about the libraries that come with there own kompakt player, do those work in vista 64bit?
    I'd upgrade to Cubase 4. SX2 hasn't been supported after Vista and Core 2 Quads have been released so you're on your own with it. There also will be a 64 bit version of Cubase 4 in the future so you will have to upgrade anyway to release the full potential of 64 bit technology.

    32 bit software work fine in Vista 64 but you can't access more than 4 gigs of RAM per software. That means 4 gigs total for a Cubase with several Kontakt 2 instances as VST instruments.

    Does the VSL legato tool or any other legato tool for other libraries work inside kontakt?
    VSL legato script is available for all Horizon series products which means every VSL product that has a native Kontakt version.

    Is it possible to run all the midi channels in cubase with kontakt as a plugin, then running the vst audio effects over the top all within the one channel?
    I'm not sure I understand this question correctly.

    I really want to run everything in real time. With my previous setup I've never been able to run my final mixes in realtime. I had to always bounce down and then mix. Which is a major pain if you want to add another instrument after you are finished.
    That's my history too. Now I'm using the Vista 64 DAW with 4 gigs of RAM, the old 2.8 P4 with 2 gigs as a FX Teleport slave and one Macbook with 2 gigs running Windows XP and being a FXT slave when I'm in the studio. Everything is realtime. Finally.

    I know we had all these disscusions years ago about everyone using multiable pcs, but I really like to keep everything in the one pc. So is this possible with the latest pc hardware out currently? Surely a quad core cpu with something like 8gig of ram would be enough to run say 16-32 channels in real time with a few vst plugins on each?
    With enough RAM you will be able to run a pretty nice setup with one computer but currently we are stuck with 32 bit Cubase and Kontakt which means that 4 gigs is pretty much what you can use easily. You can use a standalone instance of Kontakt on the same computer with Cubase to use more memory but it's somewhat tricky. That will change when we get 64 bit versions of Cubase and Kontakt but unfortunately those releases haven't been announced yet.

    There are some issues with Vista 64 though. It's working a lot better than I anticipated but I have two severe issues. First my MOTU 828 mk2 Firewire won't work with 4 gigs of RAM. I have to disable memory remap in BIOS to get it working which leaves me with 2.8 gigs of RAM. I can work with that because I have the slaves but my super computer isn't that super because of it. They are working with Microsoft to get the issue sorted. The second thing is PACE iLok drivers. I among some other users get a Blue Screen of Death when trying to use iLoks in Vista 64. I have sent my complete system information (the complete file which you can make with the Windows program called System Information) and a memory dump from the crash and they will get back to me when they have an idea of what's causing the crash. You might run into something similar so don't expect to be working straight away.

    This is rather lengthy post to edit in this small window so this might not be very articulate. Ask for clarification.

  3. #3

    Re: Thinking of full crossgrade! Vista 64bit+Kontakt+Cubase. Scary!

    Quote Originally Posted by janila

    There are some issues with Vista 64 though. It's working a lot better than I anticipated but I have two severe issues. First my MOTU 828 mk2 Firewire won't work with 4 gigs of RAM. I have to disable memory remap in BIOS to get it working which leaves me with 2.8 gigs of RAM. I can work with that because I have the slaves but my super computer isn't that super because of it. They are working with Microsoft to get the issue sorted. The second thing is PACE iLok drivers. I among some other users get a Blue Screen of Death when trying to use iLoks in Vista 64. I have sent my complete system information (the complete file which you can make with the Windows program called System Information) and a memory dump from the crash and they will get back to me when they have an idea of what's causing the crash. You might run into something similar so don't expect to be working straight away.

    This is rather lengthy post to edit in this small window so this might not be very articulate. Ask for clarification.
    hello, i want the same setup as you.
    Vista 64, cubase 4, Quad Core and a Motu 828MkII USB2.0 as soundcard. which motherboard do you have ?
    i want to buy for use with this PC VSL SE , but it's running Ilok driver right ? (or syncrosoft ?).

    so, i will be in trouble. please keep us informed if these bugs are fixed soon ! thanks.

  4. #4

    Re: Thinking of full crossgrade! Vista 64bit+Kontakt+Cubase. Scary!

    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Prod
    hello, i want the same setup as you.
    Vista 64, cubase 4, Quad Core and a Motu 828MkII USB2.0 as soundcard. which motherboard do you have ?
    Asus P5B-VM with the latest firmware.

    i want to buy for use with this PC VSL SE , but it's running Ilok driver right ? (or syncrosoft ?).
    I have the VSL VI SE too. It uses a Syncrosoft dongle and atleast on my Vista 64 system it works just as expected.

    so, i will be in trouble. please keep us informed if these bugs are fixed soon ! thanks.
    I don't know how common the iLok issue is but I know that I'm not the only one. I got the impression that the MOTU can't work with the current Vista with 4 gigs RAM or more but the OS needs to get an update. I don't know if it's the same with the USB2 version but I'd assume that it is. I'll report back.

  5. #5

    Re: Thinking of full crossgrade! Vista 64bit+Kontakt+Cubase. Scary!

    Big thanks to janila for answering my questions! It's most helpful!

    Quote Originally Posted by janila
    I'm not sure I understand this question correctly.
    Original Question: "Is it possible to run all the midi channels in cubase with kontakt as a plugin, then running the vst audio effects over the top all within the one channel?"

    Ok, what I'm asking is it possible to run a midi channel in cubase a with kontakt vst instrument plugged in, and as I understand you can use reverbs and other effects inside this vst instrument. However 1 step further can you also use other audio vst plugins as well over the top... So basically one channel would be midi to kontakt instument to vst audio plug ins... So you are not only adding effects in the vst instrument, but you are applying audio effects as well. But this a midi channel. Is this possible?

  6. #6

    Re: Thinking of full crossgrade! Vista 64bit+Kontakt+Cubase. Scary!

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterWayne
    Ok, what I'm asking is it possible to run a midi channel in cubase a with kontakt vst instrument plugged in, and as I understand you can use reverbs and other effects inside this vst instrument. However 1 step further can you also use other audio vst plugins as well over the top... So basically one channel would be midi to kontakt instument to vst audio plug ins... So you are not only adding effects in the vst instrument, but you are applying audio effects as well. But this a midi channel. Is this possible?
    This is standard practice in Sonar. I would imagine the same goes for Cubase.

  7. #7

    Re: Thinking of full crossgrade! Vista 64bit+Kontakt+Cubase. Scary!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickie Fønshauge
    This is standard practice in Sonar. I would imagine the same goes for Cubase.
    Sweet as!!

  8. #8

    Re: Thinking of full crossgrade! Vista 64bit+Kontakt+Cubase. Scary!

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterWayne
    Ok, what I'm asking is it possible to run a midi channel in cubase a with kontakt vst instrument plugged in, and as I understand you can use reverbs and other effects inside this vst instrument. However 1 step further can you also use other audio vst plugins as well over the top... So basically one channel would be midi to kontakt instument to vst audio plug ins... So you are not only adding effects in the vst instrument, but you are applying audio effects as well. But this a midi channel. Is this possible?
    Yes. Technically it isn't the same channel as a MIDI input channel and an audio output channel are involved. Mixing the output channels from the VST insruments works just like any other audio track, you have the channel eq, insert slots and sends. In the inserts you can add any VST effects.

    Cubase 4 brought two new handy features. One is the ability to drag and drop effects which means that for example you can easily try a compressor before an eq and vice versa or copy the same plugin with the same settings to another track. Another new thing are the instrument tracks which have the MIDI track, VST instrument and the instrument's output channel combined to a single block. That way you can save the mix with the VST so that it is easy to load the same sound to a new project. The downside is that the instrument tracks aren't multitimbral which makes them useless with Kontakt but they might work with VSL VIs. I still use the old fashined way and use separate MIDI tracks, VST instruments in the VST instrument slots and save the output channels in the mixer if I feel the need to import the same settings to another project.

  9. #9

    Re: Thinking of full crossgrade! Vista 64bit+Kontact+Cubase. Scary!

    One thing I forgot to mention about Vista64 is that you have to be cautious with new driver versions. Dont' try to fix anything that isn't broken. My motherboard has the Realtek GLAN included. I had been using the drivers that date back to January and they worked well. I downloaded a new driver from Microsoft Update with other updates without really paying attention to it. The new driver is dated to June or July. Suddenly I get dropouts in the GLAN connection. Big file transfers hang and Windows says that the network name isn't available anymore. FX Teleported plugins suddenly disappear from the project. I was horrified and tried all sorts of things before I noticed that I had downloaded a new driver for the board. After changing back to the old driver everything has worked just the way they should. Lesson learned.

  10. #10

    Re: Thinking of full crossgrade! Vista 64bit+Kontact+Cubase. Scary!

    I promised to give an update when things evolve. PACE informed me that they have a new driver available that should solve the BSoD with Vista 64. I got the idea that this only concerns Cubase users but I don't think Steinberg is to blame this time if PACE is able to fix it with a driver update. I have downloaded the driver but I haven't tried it yet. I'll do that tonight.

    MOTU is still working with their update but that should be coming too.

    I also had some trouble with Voxengo's Pristine Space in Cubase 4 and Vista 64. I informed Aleksey about the issue and he came up with an update in a day or so. I haven't tried that either but I'll do that as soon as possible.

    Overall I get the impression that companies are serious about Vista 64.

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