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Topic: Li'L Darlin'

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  1. #1

    Li'L Darlin' (updated mix)

    Hi all..

    Here is a lttle project I am working on at the moment.

    www.stradjazz.com/LilDarlinTake01.mp3

    and this is a tweked mix with higher rhythm section levels:

    www.stradjazz.com/LilDarlinTake01_remix01.mp3

    The rhythm section (Piano, Bass & Drums) is JABB but everything else is "real".

    The crucial question is - "Does the rhythm section sit nicely with everything else, or does it sound artificial".

    Opinions?

    The chart is a Neil Hefti composition/arrangement for the Count Basie Band. The "real" instrument recordings are pretty much a first take with the odd slip and fumble - the purposes being to see if the real/sample mix works as music and doesn't sound artificial.

    Thanks for listening - and please be critical - if it sounds rubbish, I need to know.
    Richard N.

    Finale 2003 to 2007 ~ Garritan GPO, JABB & Strad ~ Sonar 6PE ~ Kontakt 2 ~ WinXP Home SP2

    Athlon XP 2200 ~ 1.5 Gb RAM ~ M-Audio Sound Card ~ M-Audio 88ES MIDI keyboard ~ Evolution MK-461C

    Bach Strad LT16MG, LT36G, 42B + B&H Sovereign Studio Tenor Trombones ~ Holton 181 Bass Trombone ~ Getzen Bass Trumpet ~ Yamaha TR4335G Trumpet ~ B&H Euphonium

  2. #2

    Re: Li'L Darlin'

    Hi Richard,

    nice melody!

    Can you perhaps mix another master where the drums and piano and bass have got more volume? I can`t it hear well.....

    Gunther
    "Music is the shorthand of emotion." Leo Tolstoy

    Listen to me, tuning my triangle http://www.box.net/shared/ae822u6r3i

  3. #3

    Re: Li'L Darlin'

    Richard:

    Know this tune well and it is a great Neil Hefti chart.
    First off, I think the real instruments sound really
    good, but maybe tool much reverb.

    Secondly, the live instruments need to to LOWERED
    in volume so the rhythm section can be heard.

    Third and last, the tempo needs a little boost.

    A great combination, Richard, and you are on your
    way to combining live instruments really well.

    Jack
    Jack Cannon--MacBook Pro (2015, 13") GPO4/5, JABB3, Auth. STEINWAY, YAMAHA CFX, Gofriller CELLO, Stradivari VIOLIN, COMB2, WORLD, HARPS, PIPE ORGANS, FINALE 2014.5, Mac Pro 2.66 GHz CPU, 8 GB RAM, DP 9.5, MOTU Traveler, MOTU Micro Express, MacBook Pro (2012, 13") 2.2 Ghz CPU, 8 GB RAM.

  4. #4
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    Re: Li'L Darlin'

    I'll agree with Jack and Gunther here - the rhythm sections needs to be louder in the mix. After the intro (and not including the two notes at the end)did you use the piano? I couldn't hear it at all in the mix. OK, one or two times when nothing else was going on I heard a chord or two... The bass was better, but the drums were also almost lost.

    I'm also with Jack as far as tempo goes - I've always heard this a little faster.

    Despite being a first take, the brass does sound good. And I think once the mix is improved the JABB rhythm section will fit in real nice.
    Trent P. McDonald

  5. #5

    Re: Li'L Darlin'

    Hey, Richard - Now this is a rare event, hearing something from you in the LR--cool!

    I'm checking with the others, that your rhythm section is a bit too low in the mix. It certainly doesn't sound "artificial" though.

    Sounds nice! Ah, I also agree that stepping up the tempo a bit would be perhaps to be preferred.

    How are you using this recording? I mean, with the live brass - are you doing a demo for these guys, are you playing in there, --what's the story?

    Thanks!

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)

  6. #6

    Re: Li'L Darlin'

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard N.
    The crucial question is - "Does the rhythm section sit nicely with everything else, or does it sound artificial".

    Not at all artificial, Richard! I'm impressed -- and encouraged about JABB, which I have used only a little since buying it and staggering through the updates.

    Yeah, there may be slightly too much reverb on the horn section, but it's not a bit ugly as it is. Its volume could be balanced better with the rhythm section, which does sort of disappear after the intro bars. The bass does not disappear, does its job nicely throughout, and sounds real. But drums can't be heard at all on my outfit. Not sure any are needed.

    I play this glacially slow with a trio; but questions of tempo are your own choice, and this swings. That's an absolutely lovely, understated trumpet solo. Miniscule playinmg glitches are no problem and make it sound genuine.

    Tremendously good stuff.


    Larry

  7. #7

    Re: Li'L Darlin'

    Gunther, jack, Trent, Randy & Larry,

    Many thanks for your replies and constructive criticism.

    I have now remixed the rhythm a little higher:

    www.stradjazz.com/LilDarlinTake01_remix01.mp3

    As regards tempo, the metronome marking on the score is "80-88" and my recording is at 70 - which is a tempo I like the chart at. However, I have checked out the availble recordings of the same arrangement with the following results:

    Count Basie studio recording total length 4:47
    Billy May recording 4:50
    My recording 4:40

    There are two live versions (same arrangement) made by Coutn Basie, one is a fast one at 4:07 and the other gets slower and slower to a total of about 5:20 !

    The upside of this investigation is that there are some more/different/better piano fills and incidentals that are not included on the score, but which I will use to add to the arrangement. There is very little in the way of piano line in the score other than "comping" and I am against having a piano comping chords in the background just fo rthe sake of it. Having played piano in a big band, I learned that for most of the time the piano player is not really required.

    For those of you interested in the real instruments - they are multitracked and all played by me

    They are - Trumpet, Bass Trumpet, Trombone and Bass Trombone. [the trumpet sounds a little weak because I've only been playing it since the start of August].

    Thanks again guys - some good, encouraging comments and food for thought on the mixing front.

    Cheers!
    Richard N.

    Finale 2003 to 2007 ~ Garritan GPO, JABB & Strad ~ Sonar 6PE ~ Kontakt 2 ~ WinXP Home SP2

    Athlon XP 2200 ~ 1.5 Gb RAM ~ M-Audio Sound Card ~ M-Audio 88ES MIDI keyboard ~ Evolution MK-461C

    Bach Strad LT16MG, LT36G, 42B + B&H Sovereign Studio Tenor Trombones ~ Holton 181 Bass Trombone ~ Getzen Bass Trumpet ~ Yamaha TR4335G Trumpet ~ B&H Euphonium

  8. #8
    Senior Member LHong's Avatar
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    Re: Li'L Darlin'

    Sounds Cool, Richard!
    Understood that, Using the "Real and Sample" instruments (within the mix) are not easy, due to the "Room simulation" is tough! But it is great for the Solo in real instruments!

    With a little High Frequency (EQ-passage) in the mix would be nice!

    Thanks for sharing!

    Long

  9. #9

    Re: Li'L Darlin'

    Hi Richard,

    Well this certainly is NOT rubbish! Really well done with a delicate touch, I thought.

    As others have suggested, the reverb might be a tad "wet", but not tremendously so -- and the drums could be a little more prominent with that "stirring the soup" cool brushes pattern. Just a couple more suggestions:

    -I'd like to hear a bit more of some sparse piano jabs accompanying the ensemble sections, ala Basie himself, along with a subtle fill just here and there with those brushes on the drums.

    -I think just a hint of vibrato in the lead instruments (i.e. 1st alto sax & 1st trumpet) especially at the end of the phrases would add even more realism to an already very "real" sounding ensemble.

    As for tempo... personally, I think it's perfect! I've played this particular chart tons of times -- at various tempos -- and I think you got it just right.

    Really nice job-- thanks for sharing!

    Danny

  10. #10

    Re: Li'L Darlin'

    Quite a nice sound you're getting on this, Richard!

    As far as preferences, I definitely prefer the second version.

    Not quite sure on tempo, but maybe just a hair quicker...?

    My best,



    David
    www.DavidSosnowski.com
    .

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