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Topic: What is "Round Robin" in CB /MB Timp part?

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  1. #1

    What is "Round Robin" in CB /MB Timp part?

    What is meant by "L/R round robin" in the execution directions for the CB /MB Timp part?
    In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is.

    http://reberclark.blogspot.com http://reberclark.bandcamp.com http://www.youtube.com/reberclark

  2. #2

    Re: What is "Round Robin" in CB /MB Timp part?

    Hi, Reberclark - I see the urgency of your question!--hehe (reference to your two posts with this question).

    I don't have CoMB, but when I've seen the term "round robin" used in connection with sampled drums, it's meant that a different sample kicks in each time you strike the key.

    This is probably what it means in this case, since in your other post you also explained that the Tympani is on a single key rather than on two keys two octaves apart as in GPO.

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)

  3. #3

    Re: What is "Round Robin" in CB /MB Timp part?

    Quote Originally Posted by reberclark
    What is meant by "L/R round robin" in the execution directions for the CB /MB Timp part?
    "L/R round robin" = alternating Left hand / Right hand samples is a fair guess.

  4. #4

    Re: What is "Round Robin" in CB /MB Timp part?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickie Fønshauge
    "L/R round robin" = alternating Left hand / Right hand samples is a fair guess.
    Is it easy to script a round robin in K2? I know some libraries have it built in. It seems useful...

    Also...if I have 4 tuba parts and 4 tuba samples, is it OK to RR them? Will there be phasing problems...or is it controllable to the point that all 4 parts are always using different samples??

    Just curious...
    Jim
    Jim Williams
    Professor of Capitalism
    N9EJR
    Indianapolis Brass Choir
    All Your Bass Sus&Short Are Belong to Us.

  5. #5

    Re: What is "Round Robin" in CB /MB Timp part?

    Quote Originally Posted by snorlax
    Is it easy to script a round robin in K2? I know some libraries have it built in. It seems useful...
    Round robin does not need to be scripted. By defining different sample groups in Kontakt's editor you can implement sample alternation automatically.

    Round robin can itself create a machine gun effect however, and to combat this scripts have been written to utilize nearby samples. A forum search should bring up several which will do the job nicely. They are in the K2/Midi scripting section.

    Also...if I have 4 tuba parts and 4 tuba samples, is it OK to RR them? Will there be phasing problems...or is it controllable to the point that all 4 parts are always using different samples??
    It depends a lot on the parts and whether the samples are derivative to begin with. I don't think you'd have many issues unless two or more were playing in a lot of unison.

    Reegs

  6. #6

    Re: What is "Round Robin" in CB /MB Timp part?

    Thanks to eveybody who responded. Sorry I posted a duplicate of this question but I really needed an answer and thought my first post was too unclear!

    I guessed that the "L/R round robin" was alternating right hand and left and, in fact, that is what it is - on a single key (unlike GPO).

    I have a piano action keyboard, however, and entering rolls on a single key can be a bit sloppy. My solution is to record the timp. alternating hands in octaves and then transpose the upper notes down an octave. There has been no machine gunning effect so far - maybe the "round robin" samples in action?

    Anyway thanks for the help!

    - Reber Clark
    In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is.

    http://reberclark.blogspot.com http://reberclark.bandcamp.com http://www.youtube.com/reberclark

  7. #7

    Re: What is "Round Robin" in CB /MB Timp part?

    Quote Originally Posted by reberclark
    There has been no machine gunning effect so far - maybe the "round robin" samples in action?
    If you transposed the upper notes down to the same key as the lower notes, then yes, what you hear is RR in action.

  8. #8

    Re: What is "Round Robin" in CB /MB Timp part?

    Hello again, Reberclark

    If I understand you correctly, that sounds like a clever approach. You're playing the Tympani note and also a note up an octave, even though it's a different instrument - but then you shift those higher notes down an octave so they hit the same Tympani note as your left hand - that's what you're doing, I think?

    The GPO Tympani layout, with the left and right notes separated by 2 octaves Does offer a good way of doing rolls, and as I understand it, that's what you're simulating now in CoMB.

    "...entering rolls on a single key can be a bit sloppy..." I know what you mean, it can be difficult to play one key, I often turn my hand slightly at an angle and drum two fingers for things like drum rolls. BUT being "a bit sloppy" is the key element to a successful percussion roll of any sort. As soon as it's quantized or automated - yikes - ! Having that very imperfect spacing of notes that can only come from playing them is the only way to start on a realistic roll - either on one key or two. Ya know?

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)

  9. #9

    Re: What is "Round Robin" in CB /MB Timp part?

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser-
    Hello again, Reberclark

    If I understand you correctly, that sounds like a clever approach. You're playing the Tympani note and also a note up an octave, even though it's a different instrument - but then you shift those higher notes down an octave so they hit the same Tympani note as your left hand - that's what you're doing, I think?

    The GPO Tympani layout, with the left and right notes separated by 2 octaves Does offer a good way of doing rolls, and as I understand it, that's what you're simulating now in CoMB.

    "...entering rolls on a single key can be a bit sloppy..." I know what you mean, it can be difficult to play one key, I often turn my hand slightly at an angle and drum two fingers for things like drum rolls. BUT being "a bit sloppy" is the key element to a successful percussion roll of any sort. As soon as it's quantized or automated - yikes - ! Having that very imperfect spacing of notes that can only come from playing them is the only way to start on a realistic roll - either on one key or two. Ya know?

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)
    I agree, Randy, I hardly ever quantize anything. Also, not to denigrate others' use of "human playback," I much prefer to enter my own human playback (last time I checked I was human), especially in large ensembles, instead of putting things through (what I see as -IMHO) an artificial process. Even if I have to temporarily slow the tempo way down to enter a line or a figure the result is, to my ear, much more realistic.

    Yes I am using two keys an octave apart in the CoMB Timp part, playing the roll with both hands, then transposing the top notes down an octave. Since this results in a more natural roll, and there is no "machine gunning," I figure that the "round robin" designation is what Nickie identified - that repeated attacks vary the samples on the same key.

    My fat fingers in combination with the piano action on my keyboard are what make my single-key rolls generally "sloppy!" I really preferred the GPO Timp. execution 2 octaves apart and don't know why it was implemented this way in CoMB. Not a big problem, however, just a few extra steps! Until I get comfotable with the CoMB Timp. I am using the GPO Timp. in some of my CoMB stuff.

    - Reber Clark
    In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is.

    http://reberclark.blogspot.com http://reberclark.bandcamp.com http://www.youtube.com/reberclark

  10. #10

    Re: What is "Round Robin" in CB /MB Timp part?

    Cool, Reber - At first I thought maybe you meant you were recording the Tympani as Audio, then shifting that down in pitch--aaaand of course that wouldn't have been so cool. That's why I was making sure I understood what you were doing in the MIDI realm.

    Right, your results are sounding good, because as I said in my first reply here, Round Robin means that the samples being played on that one note are alternated each time you strike the key.

    March on!

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)

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