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Topic: Concert and Marching band trouble

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  1. #1

    Concert and Marching band trouble

    Hello all,
    I'm using Sonar 6, and I'm trying to apply my garritan sounds from the marching band library to my midi file...no such luck! I tried following the tutorial on using GPO, but it didn't work.
    Any ideas?
    Thanks!
    Rob

  2. #2

    Re: Concert and Marching band trouble

    I'm no expert but if you are able to create a NEW file with Garritan sounds then I would suggest that it's the MIDI coding on your old files that may be the culprit. The Garritan programs do handle some things differently like the Mod Wheel (for expression and volume variation) and the sustain pedal (for legato). This is what I would try (no guarantees!) to convert an old MIDI line:

    1a. Load one instance of Kontakt Player 2 into your project's "synth rack."
    1b. You can click the upper left corner of KP2 to enable it as a "tabbed" window.
    1c. Make a note of what controllers are used in the old line.
    2. Wipe the Mod Wheel and Sustain pedal controllers from the old line (if any).
    3. Load your new Garritan sound for this line into KP2.
    4. In Sonar, go into the I/O tab and select the MIDI input method (your input config), then which Kontakt Player to use (probably the only one listed at this point), then which MIDI channel to use (it must agree with the channel set in the Kontakt Player for this sound).
    5. In Track View play the file. If there is still no sound try varying the Mod Wheel. If there is still no sound get back to the Kontakt Player, click the "gear button" in the upper left hand corner of the sound you are setting up, then check the "accept standard controllers for Volume and Pan" box. This is what will tie Sonar sliders and Pan controls to the Kontakt player. Some people see this as a big pain in the *$$, others seem to like it. See elsewhere on this board for rants and raves.
    6. Back in Sonar everything should work. Record new controller data over the track if desired.
    7. There are many others on these boards who know alot more than I do. If the above doesn't work, keep asking!

    Best of luck,
    Reber Clark
    In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is.

    http://reberclark.blogspot.com http://reberclark.bandcamp.com http://www.youtube.com/reberclark

  3. #3

    Re: Concert and Marching band trouble

    Hello, RobStein

    I'm sorry to hear you're having troubles.

    Reber has already done a fantastic job of talking you through many things which could straighten things out for you.

    But your post was extremely scant with information. We can't tell if you're talking about importing a MIDI file that you found online, or if you've created that file on your own inside Sonar - if so, what instruments were you using to hear your work as you recorded?

    I can't tell if you've ever used any soft synths before - There could be some basic audio routing routines that you're not familiar with.

    Go through Reber's suggestions and keep us posted.

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)

  4. #4

    Re: Concert and Marching band trouble

    Thanks for the replies everyone. I'm sorry if I was being somewhat vague.

    I created the midi file from Sibelius 4. Since Sib.4 does not support the marching band library, I exported the notation as MIDI file and opened it in sonar 6.
    Instrumentation included:
    Piccolo
    Flute
    Bb Clarinet
    Alto Sax
    Bari Sax
    Trumpet
    F Horn
    Baritone
    Tuba

    Thanks again!
    Rob

  5. #5

    Re: Concert and Marching band trouble

    Hi, Rob - Thanks for coming back with more info.

    OK, so you created your MIDI file and exported it as a Type 1 MIDI file? Type 0 is the kind where all tracks are merged into one track. If you accidentally used that kind of file, Sonar has a utility to separate the tracks by MIDI channel again.

    Once in Sonar, you opened your KP2 and loaded the CMB instruments? And you then assigned each MIDI track to the channels you need to access the instruments? And you made sure each of the VSTi audio tracks which match the MIDI tracks are pointed to the right inputs?

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)

  6. #6

    Re: Concert and Marching band trouble

    I followed everything except for the VSTi audio tracks, ya lost me there. I saved it as a type I MIDI file, then opened it in SONAR, and each instrument appeared as a MIDI track.
    I inserted the CMB soft synth, went to the I/O tab for each instrument, and changed ouputs to CMB library. In the CMB softsnyth, I selected each instrument and made sure the channel I selected in SONAR for each instrument was the corresponding channel in CMB, and no sound.
    Thanks,
    Rob

  7. #7

    Re: Concert and Marching band trouble

    Hello again, Rob

    OK - I was trying to find out in my first reply yesterday if you've used soft synths before. I think you haven't? Because I think that's the problem.

    A soft synth, like CMB, needs Two tracks in Sonar--One is the MIDI track, the other is the audio track through which the instrument plays--those are called VSTi tracks.

    If you don't have those in your project, you'll never have anything. The inputs into those soft synth VSTi tracks have to be from the outputs of the synth/sampler you're using. Each one has to be set to the right output as you have the instruments set up in KP2.

    If this isn't making sense, then you have to go to Sonar's Help files and read about using soft synths. This is square one for using libraries like Garritan's.

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)

  8. #8

    Re: Concert and Marching band trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by reberclark
    I'm no expert but if you are able to create a NEW file with Garritan sounds then I would suggest that it's the MIDI coding on your old files that may be the culprit. The Garritan programs do handle some things differently like the Mod Wheel (for expression and volume variation) and the sustain pedal (for legato). This is what I would try (no guarantees!) to convert an old MIDI line:

    1a. Load one instance of Kontakt Player 2 into your project's "synth rack."
    1b. You can click the upper left corner of KP2 to enable it as a "tabbed" window.
    1c. Make a note of what controllers are used in the old line.
    2. Wipe the Mod Wheel and Sustain pedal controllers from the old line (if any).
    3. Load your new Garritan sound for this line into KP2.
    4. In Sonar, go into the I/O tab and select the MIDI input method (your input config), then which Kontakt Player to use (probably the only one listed at this point), then which MIDI channel to use (it must agree with the channel set in the Kontakt Player for this sound).
    5. In Track View play the file. If there is still no sound try varying the Mod Wheel. If there is still no sound get back to the Kontakt Player, click the "gear button" in the upper left hand corner of the sound you are setting up, then check the "accept standard controllers for Volume and Pan" box. This is what will tie Sonar sliders and Pan controls to the Kontakt player. Some people see this as a big pain in the *$$, others seem to like it. See elsewhere on this board for rants and raves.
    6. Back in Sonar everything should work. Record new controller data over the track if desired.
    7. There are many others on these boards who know alot more than I do. If the above doesn't work, keep asking!

    Best of luck,
    Reber Clark

    Rob,

    Randy's giving you some good info. If he's on the mark then try this:

    1a. In Sonar go to "Insert" then "Soft synths" then "vst plugins," then "Kontakt Player 2." If Kontakt Player 2 is listed, select it and go to 2, below.

    1b. If Kontakt player 2 isn't listed then you need to scan for VSTs (VST stands for "Virtual Studio technology" which is what Kontakt Player 2 is). To do that go to Options > Global >VST plugins >scan for VST folders. (then go back 1a).

    2. On the "Insert Soft Synth Options" menu you have to select "first synth output" to place a Kontakt Player track (different from a MIDI track) in the Track View of Sonar. This is analogous to firing up a hardware synth. If you already have MIDI tracks (which will tie into this new track - the synth) the only option you really need to check is First Synth Audio Output. Click OK. This creates a slot for your synth (Kontakt). You should see it in Track View now.

    3. Once you see "Kontakt Player 2" as a "track" in Track View you can run each MIDI line through it linked to the appropriate sound by following what I wrote in my initial response above.

    I was new to soft synths just a few months ago and I really had to work to wrap my head around the concepts. Keep at it, and keep asking!
    - Reber Clark
    In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is.

    http://reberclark.blogspot.com http://reberclark.bandcamp.com http://www.youtube.com/reberclark

  9. #9

    Re: Concert and Marching band trouble

    Hi, Reber - You are doing great in filling in details I was skimming over. Though he hasn't said so, I think Rob's issue is that using "soft synths" is new to him--right Rob?

    One thing though, Reber. You said, "...On the "Insert Soft Synth Options" menu you have to select "first synth output" to place a Kontakt Player track..."

    That will get you only one audio track for out put, Rob. It's more convenient to select "all synth output" - because then all the audio tracks you need for All the Kontact outputs will be put in the project instead of just one. And you really want each MIDI track to have its own audio output, otherwise you are really hamstrung when it comes to mixing.

    You need all the tracks you can muster so you have flexibility with your project. You must try it that way.

    And let us know when you're successful.

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)

  10. #10

    Re: Concert and Marching band trouble

    Thanks for the correction Randy.

    Rob - Randy's right, sorry for the slip-up.

    Hope all goes well!

    Reber Clark
    In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is.

    http://reberclark.blogspot.com http://reberclark.bandcamp.com http://www.youtube.com/reberclark

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