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Topic: Share Your Notation Tricks!

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Leaf's Avatar
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    Arrow Share Your Notation Tricks!

    I found this while googling guitar stuff and tried it out, works great so i decided to share:

    A way to notate an arpeggiated chord for realism. Click the link and scroll down to the bottom to see the pic titled "Fig.1"
    http://www.classicalguitarmidi.com/sequenceangl.html

    I don't know how to use the pedal down and up yet, that was going to be my next step on what i'm working on, but i applied this method to a three octave Steinwaypiano chord in Finale, and it sounds... it sounds like Leaf can play the piano, a miracle.

    Here is what it looks like: http://www.box.net/shared/z1bcacpgri

    don't know why it doesn't just show the pic when i give img tags, it just shows a questionmark in a little blue box.

    I know i have those triplets all messed up there by forgetting to turn on triplets when editing, but it sounds right as is so not fixing it yet.


    Got any cool tricks you would like to share??

  2. #2

    Re: Share Your Notation Tricks!

    That's exactly how I use to notate my arpeggios in my pre-GPO days... but when I got GPO I began using mostly the harp for arpeggios, which really doesn't need sustaining or ties, and I have yet to use the piano in an orchestral setting with GPO.

    I'm not sure how MIDI editing works in other notation programs, but in Overture 4 you can make the pedal up and down markings send the necessary MIDI data to the GPO Steinway, which would save a lot of time with all those notes and ties and achieve the same effect.

    (BTW, I think the image isn't showing up because it's a TIFF file... can you convert it to a gif or a jpg?)

    Unfortunately I don't think I have any tricks up my sleeve notation wise...
    Sean Patrick Hannifin
    My MP3s | My Melody Generator | my album
    "serious music" ... as if the rest of us are just kidding

  3. #3
    Senior Member Leaf's Avatar
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    Re: Share Your Notation Tricks!

    Ah it don't like tiffs, i see!
    edit: no i can't convert it unless i download gimp or something, i was having issues and erased every program that i wasn't using.

    I can't believe you haven't used the Steiny yet, how can you resist?

    It is the hardest for me, but i have to get it figured out. Yes i'm going to try to get those pedal marking figured out. This was shown on that site for use with guitar so i think it is still useful.

    Here is an excerpt of that piano, it's a little rougher that the unshortened doc it came from which still needs work, but just an example to show how it works:
    http://www.box.net/shared/1kc424oj1e


    I have to change the harp arpeggio in the background, it sounds like clang clang.

  4. #4

    Re: Share Your Notation Tricks!

    I don't get what your asking for...
    Finale does arp. effects without needing to go to any trouble of 3rd party intervention.

    Just to be REALLY anal retentive, the wrong terminology is being used in that article. Yes the chords are "arpeggiated" but they are not "arpeggios", they are simply strummed (as is the nature of the instrument - in that case the guitar). An arpeggio is a measured sequence of notes that delineate a chord structure. The effect he is talking about in that article is non-measured (despite using fixed durations, that is the effect that is being aimed for).

    The reason I am perplexed is that you mention Finale. Within Finale there is an articulation that does the "arp." effect (rolled chord) without needing to fiddle with MIDI of any kind. Just assign the articulation to the chord and presto, rolled chord. Works on any instrument - even instruments that don't normally "strum" or roll chords. Finale will even by default roll chords in baroque music on the harpsichord (which is normal in music of the period).

    As for pedal, do you mean controller 64? (sustain pedal)
    If so, I find it's one of the most difficult things to do with MIDI for the simple fact that the controller is on/off, while a real piano's pedal isn't.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Leaf's Avatar
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    Re: Share Your Notation Tricks!

    Well, i wasn't exactly asking anything i guess, just showing the thingy i found on that link in case it would be useful for anyone to know about.

    Here is the same chords without applying that method of tying every note:
    http://www.box.net/shared/qkhcj6rlkm

    To me doesn't sound as good as the one with it.

    Thanks for the info though, every bit helps.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Leaf's Avatar
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    Re: Share Your Notation Tricks!

    Quote Originally Posted by qccowboy

    The reason I am perplexed is that you mention Finale. Within Finale there is an articulation that does the "arp." effect (rolled chord) without needing to fiddle with MIDI of any kind. Just assign the articulation to the chord and presto, rolled chord. Works on any instrument - even instruments that don't normally "strum" or roll chords. Finale will even by default roll chords in baroque music on the harpsichord (which is normal in music of the period).
    What is the number on that articulation? I thought you were talking about the Gissando tool. but that one has a very different effect than the tying. But the pedal seems to have the same as the tying, so for people who have that not needed i guess.

  7. #7

    Re: Share Your Notation Tricks!

    Quote Originally Posted by qccowboy
    As for pedal, do you mean controller 64? (sustain pedal)
    If so, I find it's one of the most difficult things to do with MIDI for the simple fact that the controller is on/off, while a real piano's pedal isn't.
    Actually, that's not quite right. In Finale/HP it is on/off by default (although you can create your own expression, that triggers half pedaling), but MIDI CC#64 can take 128 different values (0-127). Sequencers can handle all these values, even Finale's MIDI Tool can handle them and there are MIDI Sustain pedals, that can handle them as well. And some Softsynths/Sample libraries, although they may still be a minority.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Leaf's Avatar
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    Re: Share Your Notation Tricks!

    I'll have to try that half pedal.

    I posted above that the pedal and the tying all the notes seemed to have the same effect, but now have found it sounds different, subtlety different. Pedal sounds like it has the real effect of piano cabinet resonance added to the sustain, a fuller sound, and the tying of the notes is without that, maybe more intimate borrowing reverb jargon, maybe similar to those soft pedals found on some spinet and console pianos, that when used along with sustain pedal is a soft and shorter sustain. Could still be useful when a slightly different effect is desired or combined with others

    With the Articulations, I know the basic ones at top, and the mute and open for horn at the bottom, the plus and little o, and i know the bow up and bow down. Now i know pedal up and pedal down, but most of those in the middle, i don't know, and on the web Dolmesch, Wiki and various College's websites only give the names and descriptions of the basic ones, Staccato, Marcato, Accent, Tenuto/Legato. The Finale's Appendix has the list of all of them but does not give their names and functions. Anyone know where i can find out what they all are and what they do?

  9. #9
    Senior Member Leaf's Avatar
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    Re: Share Your Notation Tricks!

    Quote Originally Posted by qccowboy

    As for pedal, do you mean controller 64? (sustain pedal)
    If so, I find it's one of the most difficult things to do with MIDI for the simple fact that the controller is on/off, while a real piano's pedal isn't.
    Oh, i missed that question first time. I was speaking of the Ped symbol in Finale's articulations and HP's responds to it even though it is says none in the playback box. I guess it means none if you don't have HP turned on.

  10. #10

    Re: Share Your Notation Tricks!

    Nickie, are you sure that the GPO grand has "half pedal"?
    I have yet to make anything other than on/off work using the GPO piano.

    Finale lets me make the pedal markings I want so I am not limited to on/off (I can assign whatever value I want to the ped on and off expressions I make).
    I simply haven't seen any difference between 0 and 63, and between 65 and 127. it's all just "on" or "off".

    ********
    Leaf, since I tend to move my articulations around, the number in teh articulation list may not correspond to the same articulation in your list.

    Just turn on the articulation tool, then hit "R" while targetting the bottom note of a chord with the cursor. That will assign the "rolled chord" articulation. It's "R" by default, so if you've made any changes then this may not work.

    Depending on which pre-set HP you use, as well as the basic tempo of the music, it will treat the rolled chord articulation slightly differently. If the note is too short and the tempo too fast, HP will simply ignore the articulation rather than give a half-assed playback of it.

    The tool and how to use it follow:

    Articulation tool





    Rolled Chord articulation





    Apply the articulation by clicking on the bottom note of the chord




    Stretch the articulation to cover the entire span of the chord in question


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