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Topic: Need some help with dynamics in GPO

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  1. #1

    Need some help with dynamics in GPO

    I understood that the dynamics in GPO are controlled by the Mod wheel. But what happens if I have a Midi with dynamics in it already, will GPO turn them automatically to Mod Wheel moves? If not, how can I do this?

    I'm using Sbelius to write the midis (and put dynamics in them) and Sonar 6 to play them with GPO.

    Thank you

  2. #2

    Re: Need some help with dynamics in GPO

    Hi there,

    There is a simple solution for your question, but first a little MIDI CC lesson. In standard MIDI language, dynamics (or velocity) can be controlled by one of the following CC's: CC7 - volume, or CC11 - expression. These are the ones that Sibelius uses to create dynamics. Mainly, you can see CC7 as the track's main volume - it has the same effect as sliding the track's volume fader in the mixer window in Sibelius. Dynamics, like p, mp, f, ff, are made using CC11, which lets you control dynamic (velocity) level without changing main volume (CC7) for that track.

    Now, your answer . In GPO, for practical reasons (related to keyboard using), the player uses Mod Wheel (CC1 messages) to control velocity, which means that it doens't respond to either CC11 or CC7 for dynamical purposes. So, if you have a Midi with dynamics in it already, GPO won't turn them automatically to Mod Wheel moves. What you must do is edit your midi files in Sibelius and, in places where you put dynamic marks, you must type some hidden text containing CC1 messages - example: ~C1,94. Sibelius recognises C1 as meaning MIDI CC1, and the number you place after the comma is your value (must be between 0 (no sound) and 128 (loudest)) for that particular dynamic.

    Now, what I advise you to do is to study which values must go for which dynamics, meaning that probably you won't like having ~C1,100 has your p dinamic reference value, as it suits better for f dinamic, and viceversa for a ~C1,50 value. Now it is a question of taste.

    After this, you can save and edit your midi files in Sonar 6 without any problem, and GPO will recognise the CC1 messages as velocity controls, and interpret them as dynamics.

    Alternatively, You can also use GPO directly with Sibelius, via GPO Studio stand-alone, and hear the results directly in Sibelius (doesn't matter which version). For more references, go here, or here, for some basics on using GPO with Sibelius.

    Hope this helps.

  3. #3

    Re: Need some help with dynamics in GPO

    I understood your explanations, I just didn't understand the way of how making GPO play according to dynamics... (expression and velocity)

    Let's say I have a midi file... the first note is in p and the second is mp - according to the expression text. What should I do to make GPO "read" it?

    Another example - there is crecendo in some part... that means - a lot of texts which say for example "~c7,10" and "~c7,11" and so on... Do I need to go to each and every one of them and change the C7 to C1? It's insane, it would take me a lot of time...

    So What should I do?

  4. #4

    Re: Need some help with dynamics in GPO

    Which version of Sibelius do you have?
    Sib 5 has builtin support.
    Sib 4 has a GPO addon. ($50)
    Sib 3 you need to manually add MIDI messages. There are some plugins to assist
    http://www.garritan.com/GPO-SibeliusPage.html

  5. #5

    Re: Need some help with dynamics in GPO

    Thank you! The link you gave me had the plugin I needed (:

    Thanks for the first user that answered, your explanations were great and made things more clear!

  6. #6

    Re: Need some help with dynamics in GPO

    Quote Originally Posted by khiun
    ... you must type some hidden text containing CC1 messages - example: ~C1,94. Sibelius recognises C1 as meaning MIDI CC1, and the number you place after the comma is your value (must be between 0 (no sound) and 128 (loudest)) for that particular dynamic.
    just a quick and minor correction, lest you end up with no response from your programme... the range is actually 0-127 (some older synths used 1-128).

  7. #7

    Re: Need some help with dynamics in GPO

    Quote Originally Posted by qccowboy
    just a quick and minor correction, lest you end up with no response from your programme... the range is actually 0-127 (some older synths used 1-128).
    Yes, you're right, it's 0-127 range. I was thinking in the 128 possible values. Thanks for the correction!

    To Dreamflight:

    " Let's say I have a midi file... the first note is in p and the second is mp - according to the expression text. What should I do to make GPO "read" it?" - Manually, enter Expression text for the first note and write ~C1,50, and for the second ~C1,75 or so. That should do.

    "...a lot of texts which say for example "~c7,10" and "~c7,11" and so on... Do I need to go to each and every one of them and change the C7 to C1? ... " - Yes, manually speaking, but as you've found out, there is a plugin for Sibelius that does all this for you

  8. #8

    Re: Need some help with dynamics in GPO

    Another GPO newbie question. I read this thread because I'm about to make the switch to GPO.

    Velocity, expression, and volume are three different midi messages. Each note-on message has a pitch byte and a velocity byte. E.g. Message "0x923740" says "note-on" ("9") channel 2, note #55 (hexadecimal 37) velocity 64 (hexadecimal 40). The velocity of a specific note is independent of either expression (control 11) or volume (control 7). Are you saying that GPO ignores the velocity value attached to each note-on message? What about the the MIDI standard that a "note-on" with a velocity of zero is equivalent to a "note-off" message?

    I always use velocity for performance dynamics and never alter expression or volume for a track.

    --gary shannon

  9. #9
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    Re: Need some help with dynamics in GPO

    fiziwig,

    GPO uses a different way to control dynamics from other other libraries because of programming issues with Kontakt. It took me a little while to understand this new paradigm (about 30 minutes). Velocity in GPO controls the attacks of instruments - lower velocities are slower and lighter attacks whereas higher velocities are faster, heavier attacks. You then use CC1 (or CC2 or CC11 in the Kontakt 2 player) to control volume and timbre. CC1 allows the sounds to get brighter as they get louder just like a real instrument.

    Percussive instruments such as piano, percussion, string short bows (staccatos) use just velocities for dynamics. This will make more sense once you start using GPO.

    Jim

  10. #10

    Re: Need some help with dynamics in GPO

    Thanks, that clears it up for now. It doesn't sound terribly foreboding, so I'm sure I'll figure it all out.

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