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Topic: What's that with the tuning of GPO?

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  1. #1

    What's that with the tuning of GPO?

    I'm using GPO succesfully as a composing tool since 2005 but I came to a point at which I simply can't stand anymore the tuning of GPO. It is really weak and I wonder why all those years no flame war forced Garritan to redo the fine-tuning.
    It's really too easy to build chords which sound horribly out of tune. Any student orchestra would do better. Are you really all content with the tuning?

  2. #2

    Re: What's that with the tuning of GPO?

    I don't have GPO yet, it's on order, so I'm speaking from ignorance, but doesn't it respond to pitch bend? Couldn't you use that to fine tune a voice?

    --gary shannon

  3. #3

    Re: What's that with the tuning of GPO?

    Hi, Mathis - I guess you mean that you have been "...using GPO succesfully as a composing tool since 2005..." but it's rather suddenly become Unsuccessful for you? Have you been having to use the fine tune control in Kontact to get tunings you're happier with?

    Gary "Fiziwig" - If you wanted to re-tune an entire instrument you wouldn't want to use pitch bend. In Kontact, as indicated above, there are tuning controls for all the instruments. While holding down "Ctrl" the tuning knob can be set in small degrees. Then you would save this as a permanent part of that instrument's set up so you don't have to tune each time you start up. But see the next paragraph re: pitch bend.

    Back to the question, in the year I've been a member here, there was one person who commented that he feels there are some samples which need tuning, but not entire instruments. He routinely applies a tiny bit of pitch bend as needed when triggering in the range of the samples he feels need help.

    But otherwise, I haven't seen mention of this, and I guess I need to confess to a tin ear because I've never noticed tuning issues which grate on me. I use cc22 for additional and purposeful detuning, in fact, since to me, most digital synth and sample based music suffers from over-perfection. Listen to most any live recording and the amount of intonation variance can seem Wildly more than what you'd ever hear in a GPO-out-of-the-box rendition.

    Randy B.
    (rbowser)

  4. #4

    Re: What's that with the tuning of GPO?

    The issue with the second violins has come up recently:
    http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/...ad.php?t=55590

    I think many might just do some pitch adjustment when we hear it. Even if samples are *perfectly* in tune, the chords won't be and need to be adjusted on occasion (make the major third a hair flat, etc). Nine times out of ten though, this isn't necessary.

  5. #5
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    Re: What's that with the tuning of GPO?

    Quote Originally Posted by mathis
    I'm using GPO succesfully as a composing tool since 2005 but I came to a point at which I simply can't stand anymore the tuning of GPO. It is really weak and I wonder why all those years no flame war forced Garritan to redo the fine-tuning.
    It's really too easy to build chords which sound horribly out of tune. Any student orchestra would do better. Are you really all content with the tuning?
    Mathis,

    This is curious as GPO has been out for four years and thousands of works have been made with it, some high profile too. There are nearly 169,000 posts in this forum and rarely is tuning mentioned. Please listen to the many works in the Listening Room and on our site. We have taken great care in the tuning and this hasn't seem to be a problem. And, of course, we welcome any opportunity and suggestions to make our libraries better.

    We probably would not have "flame wars" over it as tuning could be objectively and scientifically verified. And no 'force' is need to compel me as we could simply correct the problem if there was one (tuning is relatively easy to fix with an nki file).

    I see from this post that you were one of the early users since early 2004. Have you been keeping up witht he updates? The earlier Kontakt 2 Player had some issues with keeping the tuning parameters but those have been fixed (with the possible exception of 2nd violins which we are investigating). Perhaps you had one of the earlier updates?

    Could it be you have your VAR tuning knob or associated cc# controller turned up? This will detune notes. Worthing checking.

    Hope we can solve this for you.

    Gary Garritan

  6. #6
    Senior Member rwayland's Avatar
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    Re: What's that with the tuning of GPO?

    Quote Originally Posted by mathis
    I'm using GPO succesfully as a composing tool since 2005 but I came to a point at which I simply can't stand anymore the tuning of GPO. It is really weak and I wonder why all those years no flame war forced Garritan to redo the fine-tuning.
    It's really too easy to build chords which sound horribly out of tune. Any student orchestra would do better. Are you really all content with the tuning?
    I would tune the GPO Steinway a bit differently, but I don't think it would be advantageous to call attention to the problem by such an antogonistic, confrontational approach.

    The absence of complaints on the subject could easily lead to the thought that you could benefit by checking your system settings. There is also the possibility that your sense of pitch is far more develped than the rest of of can aspire to, in which case, you must have difficulty playing in ensemble and listening to orchestral works. I presume you have never played a pipe organ as the church was warming in the morning?

    Richard

  7. #7

    Re: What's that with the tuning of GPO?

    Gary et al,

    thanks for the replies. Wow, even early 2004....

    OK, all is fixed. The 2nd violin was easily fixed with the 7 cent fine tuning. I had the impression it needs note by note tuning. But it works well now.

    And then I have to admit that I made some mistake due to Kontakt's "feature" that the Master tuning is not saved with the preset (Multi). I had this setup transferred from another computer and it is mixed with some other VI and all is supposed to work on 442, but the default of Kontakt was still there, 440. No wonder the woodwinds sounded flat...

    The 2nd violin thing though was already there in earlier versions, that's why I came to these premature conclusions.

    Sorry for the rant, all is OK now.
    Bests,
    - Mathis

  8. #8

    Re: What's that with the tuning of GPO?

    Mostly to Gary,

    forgive my ignorance on this. I always thought that all samples were derived from recordings. And when the recorded instruments are tuned correctly, how on earth can a sample than be de-tuned? I suspect that the answer can extend over several pages, but there must be some short version available for me "the -sample- techniques-- ultimate- dummy"??

    Raymond

  9. #9
    Senior Member rwayland's Avatar
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    Re: What's that with the tuning of GPO?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond62
    Mostly to Gary,

    forgive my ignorance on this. I always thought that all samples were derived from recordings. And when the recorded instruments are tuned correctly, how on earth can a sample than be de-tuned? I suspect that the answer can extend over several pages, but there must be some short version available for me "the -sample- techniques-- ultimate- dummy"??

    Raymond
    Well, they can't detune unless assisted! There is a lot more to be said about tuning, particularly involving strings, but I can not think of a short way to say it.

    Richard

  10. #10
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    Re: What's that with the tuning of GPO?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond62
    Mostly to Gary,

    forgive my ignorance on this. I always thought that all samples were derived from recordings. And when the recorded instruments are tuned correctly, how on earth can a sample than be de-tuned? I suspect that the answer can extend over several pages, but there must be some short version available for me "the -sample- techniques-- ultimate- dummy"??

    Raymond
    Raymond,

    Good question. Sampling technology has advanced quite a bit.

    Samples are derived from recordings. They can nevertheless be tuned in an audio editor. There are tuning algorithms that can let you tune and detune the recordings. Some are quite good and even preserve formants. There is so much you can do - like tune just part of a sample or impart glides/ portamento from a straight tone. Kontakt also allows the programmer and the user to fine tune samples as well. Hope this helps.

    Gary

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