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Topic: My last attempts...

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  1. #1

    My last attempts...

    Good morning everyone.
    It's still horrible. I know. And I am trying to get better at "counterpoint" as I have been reading about it. But not sure how I am doing. This will probably be my last attempt too. I think I've got this style of music out of my system finally! ~shew!

    You can hear the sketch here: http://music.philipyon.com
    It's the link in Orange.

    Is the build up too much so early in?

    Oh, how I am starting to miss my twinkly stuff...


    Thanks for listening ( if you do )!
    Philip
    Philip
    "Imagination is nostalgia for the past, the absent; it is the liquid solution in which art develops the snapshot of reality.
    ~ Cyril Connolly"

  2. #2

    Re: My last attempts...

    Quote Originally Posted by pwyon
    Good morning everyone.
    It's still horrible. I know. And I am trying to get better at "counterpoint" as I have been reading about it. But not sure how I am doing. This will probably be my last attempt too. I think I've got this style of music out of my system finally! ~shew!

    You can hear the sketch here: http://music.philipyon.com
    It's the link in Orange.

    Is the build up too much so early in?

    Oh, how I am starting to miss my twinkly stuff...


    Thanks for listening ( if you do )!
    Philip
    I don't hear any counterpoint. What's your point? Your music is pleasant. Why would you want to get ..."this style of music out of my system...", to use your words. I must be missing something.

    Your music website is difficult to read. There is little contrast between the text and background.

    Regards,

    Larry
    Larry G. Alexander
    www.alexandermusic.com

  3. #3

    Re: My last attempts...

    I really don't see your problem. Better "counterpoint" ? What is a better counterpoint? The one that fits the harmony or the one that fits the overall mood? Don't forget about counterpoint, but let it loose. Do you have a piano, electronic keyboard? Exercise all day, play chords (also jazz chords!!) and vary the bass line (mostly counterpoint). A complete new world outside those theoretical approaches will enroll before your ears.

    Building up too soon? What? OK, the balance of volume is not quite good, but never and never ask yourself "is it building up too soon". Listen to the first part of Rachmaninoff's pianoconcerto. Sooner than that isn't possible. Instead ask yourself: is it for me personally building up too soon? In music one can express everything, from the softest whispering until the hardest explosion and all within a fraction of second. What do you want to express is the main question.

    Don't give up, is it good, it has great potential, but it is GOOD!!!!!

    Raymond

  4. #4

    Re: My last attempts...

    Morning guys,
    Thanks for the input. At least it's sounding good. My last tries weren't going so well.

    But, anywho, about counterpoint. This is a site I was reading about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterpoint
    Can someone explain to me better what it is and how it's used if I am not doing it correctly or if it's not there in my music? I know I need to be more relaxed about my writing process, but I like to learn new things that will help me improve.


    Sorry about the webpage too. I'll fix it up for yuh! I only spent a few minutes on it.

    Now time to try and make this song longer than 2 minutes!
    Philip
    "Imagination is nostalgia for the past, the absent; it is the liquid solution in which art develops the snapshot of reality.
    ~ Cyril Connolly"

  5. #5

    Re: My last attempts...

    There are probably some good books on counterpoint. Do a Google on the subject.

    Many people believe that writing counterpoint is an "art" unto itself. They are also of the opinion that you either have the ability to write it or you don't. I don't know. I have been writing works containing counterpoint since I was six or seven years old.

    Listen to the works of J. S. Bach. He was the master of masters in counterpointing.

    Larry
    Larry G. Alexander
    www.alexandermusic.com

  6. #6

    Re: My last attempts...

    Hey Larry,
    Thanks a bunch. I'll google it some more. Is there any particular song by Bach that I should listen to, or just any thing by him? Is there anyone else other than Bach?

    And man. I need to work on my bass/lower notes. Is there anything to read about that. I bought a book on theory a while ago but it's not helping. Every time I try and do something interesting with my lower notes, it sounds horrible.


    Thank you very much,
    Philip
    Philip
    "Imagination is nostalgia for the past, the absent; it is the liquid solution in which art develops the snapshot of reality.
    ~ Cyril Connolly"

  7. #7

    Re: My last attempts...

    ...changed the font to a larger size and made it brighter on the webpage. I'll try and revamp it later. I hope that helps for now though.

    Take care!
    Philip
    Philip
    "Imagination is nostalgia for the past, the absent; it is the liquid solution in which art develops the snapshot of reality.
    ~ Cyril Connolly"

  8. #8

    Re: My last attempts...

    What a nice piece! very much a movie soundtrack feel to it. Not much of a success as a counterpoint exercise, but strong proof that it needn't be present for a piece to be successful. My understanding is that counterpoint is, more or less, having a number of parts all playing different (melody) lines simultaneously yet when taken as a whole they reinforce each other and the main theme.
    Counterpoint is explained quite well in that link you posted and summed up nicely by the quote:
    "It is hard to write a beautiful song. It is harder to write several individually beautiful songs that, when sung simultaneously, sound as a more beautiful polyphonic whole. The internal structures that create each of the voices separately must contribute to the emergent structure of the polyphony, which in turn must reinforce and comment on the structures of the individual voices. The way that is accomplished in detail is...'counterpoint'."

    Almost as important in this article, and any other "LAWS" of music, is to take note of the sentences that begin something like this:

    It is a common and pedantic misconception...........

    You seem negative towards your ability and almost apologetic but, to me, are missing the point that your music itself is very good. Obviously there is nothing wrong with trying to learn "proper" technique and creating music as an exercise while learning, but don't lose sight of the music itself.

    If pro is the opposite of con lets look beyond this....the opposite of congress must be progress...

  9. #9

    Re: My last attempts...

    Hi chesterdesmond,
    Thanks for the crit. I was hoping to get rid of that movie-soundtrack feel. But, I guess I am stuck with it.

    About counterpoint though. I think I will just give up on it, for now. I think you and Raymond are right. Maybe I just need to focus on the song and not so much how I write it ( technically ). Maybe when I finish this song I could do a couple counterpoint exercises with a few instruments.

    I'm a little past 2 minutes now. Yay!
    I'll post up the changes soon...



    ,
    Philip
    Philip
    "Imagination is nostalgia for the past, the absent; it is the liquid solution in which art develops the snapshot of reality.
    ~ Cyril Connolly"

  10. #10

    Re: My last attempts...

    Philip:

    Excellent start on the new composition in "C." Your use of samples is really good and the balance and mix are really well done.

    If you want a good start on hearing some easy "two-voice" counterpoint, listen to some of Bach's Two-Part Inventions for piano. You will see that
    one voice starts out with a theme or subject and then the second voice
    imitates it and then some little developmental passages continue the piece.
    This is what counterpoint is all about; independent voices against each
    other and imitating each other at different points throughout the composition.

    Listen to Bach and you will hear all the counterpoint you will ever need.

    Enjoyable listen, Philip

    Jack
    Jack Cannon--MacBook Pro (2015, 13") GPO4/5, JABB3, Auth. STEINWAY, YAMAHA CFX, Gofriller CELLO, Stradivari VIOLIN, COMB2, WORLD, HARPS, PIPE ORGANS, FINALE 2014.5, Mac Pro 2.66 GHz CPU, 8 GB RAM, DP 9.5, MOTU Traveler, MOTU Micro Express, MacBook Pro (2012, 13") 2.2 Ghz CPU, 8 GB RAM.

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